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Advent of Code 2023's new AI/LLM Policy

adventofcode.com

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Re: Advent of Code 2023's new AI/LLM Policy

#81
Useful reminder to sort out my AoC++ donation for this year. Done.

Being in the UK I've never bothered attempting to target the global leader-board as 5am is just too early.

According to my research I probably could scrape in here or there (looking at the time between the timestamp on my input file - which I download by running a script manually - and my solution times) but then I assume I'd be one of thousands who could also do the same but are hampered by timezones.

I think the "Please don't" wording of the policy is pretty much all that Eric can do.

People will always try and game the system, but I doubt they can consistently game it for the number of days required to appear on the final leaderboard. I think the problems will just be too big/varied for LLMs to consistently solve.

Re: Advent of Code 2023's new AI/LLM Policy

#82
IMHO, a separate AI leader-board should be created which encourages users to use AI to it's fullest extent. That would give people who want to do so a way to do it legally and might make them less likely to infiltrate the standard leader-board. Not sure how technically challenging this would be.

Re: Advent of Code 2023's new AI/LLM Policy

#83
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are certainly emergent capabilities that come out of the training process of being able to predict next tokens, and it's shown that LLMs often can solve logic and math problems, riddles, etc. which are not in it's training data because deep in the internal layers of the model it has something resembling logic and reasoning abilities. This can be seen in the "benchmark" results of papers like the GPT-3 and Instr…

> Try it out yourself, make up some little math word problems and ask chatGPT or something. I have, and chatGPT simply sucks at logical reasoning in the way that is required for mathematics. It's extremely easy to make it trip up by just formulating questions in a slightly nonstandard way (so that it doesn't exactly match what it has been trained on), e.g. > User: prove that there are only finitely many primes > Chat…

You're right about the basic mistakes they can make - they can also excel at the same tasks if prompted differently. But I was making a slightly different point. The point is they can reason about things in a better-than-chance way (I mean, a much-better-than-chance way) when given problems not in the training set. Have you read the Codex paper? Seriously, go look, an LLM even from years ago (which is like decades ago in ML-time) is often able to write code to solve novel programming problems that were handwritten to not be in the training set! Also, the benchmarks against which GPT3, InstructGPT, and GPT4 were tested are illuminating about its problem solving ability on novel problems, these are described in the three respective papers.

Secondly, quality is highly variant and there are traps the context window can fall into which causes especially bad results. Jeremy Howard has a great video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkrNMKz9pWU, starting at 18:05 the 'limitations and capabilities' section is only 13 minutes long) talking about how quality depends on: how you frame your prompts, model power (4 does a lot of stuff that 3.5 can't), and whether you're in a kind of "context trap" of repeated mistakes.

Of course, some people like to point out that if it's so "finicky" and variant, it is "dumb." Sure, if you like. I'm not interested in whatever definitions you're using those things, the objective and observable point is that given well-known prompting practices, LLMs can do something functionally equivalent to reasoning about novel problems, and more powerful ones can reason about more powerful and difficult things.

I re-phrased your prompt (instead of "prove a false thing" I made it like "decide whether this thing can exist, and prove your answer"). And added a little well-known boilerplate prompt sugar. It seems to have done a better job.

https://chat.openai.com/share/53214f0c-17f7-4a3d-95be-8fd676...

Re: Advent of Code 2023's new AI/LLM Policy

#84
post #22

Maybe I'm a dinosaur but I'm utterly mystified by folks who are interested in making the leaderboard or even solving AoC puzzles with AI assistance. To me it feels like going to a 5k charity run, taking a motorcycle to the finish line, and parading your gold medal around. Like, who are you impressing? And are you even proud of yourself? I understand the appeal of using the best and fastest means when there are real-w…

People can tell if you use a motorbike though. More like, performance enhancing drugs... or designing an anthropomorphic running robot that completes the race for you. Designing such a robot would be an achievement in its own right, but not really in the spirit of the competition.

People can also tell if you submit within seconds.

Re: Advent of Code 2023's new AI/LLM Policy

#85

"(If you want to use AI to help you solve puzzles, I can't really stop you, but I feel like it's harder to get better at programming if you ask an AI to do the programming for you.)" I'd say that whatever "better at programming" is quickly evolving. AI is a tool like high level languages, IDEs, autocomplete or all the different types of code analyzers. How is ignoring a powerful tool like AI going to get you better a…

I remember older programmers making fun of me for using an IDE and autocomplete when I was learning to code as a kid, claiming I'd never learn if I relied on tools like that to "do the job for me".

This feels very similar.

Re: Advent of Code 2023's new AI/LLM Policy

#86

"(If you want to use AI to help you solve puzzles, I can't really stop you, but I feel like it's harder to get better at programming if you ask an AI to do the programming for you.)" I'd say that whatever "better at programming" is quickly evolving. AI is a tool like high level languages, IDEs, autocomplete or all the different types of code analyzers. How is ignoring a powerful tool like AI going to get you better a…

For the same reason giving a 5 year old a calculator to "learn" addition doesn't teach them math. You still need to know why shit works in order to use it in a fully educated way. Otherwise you are just "putting magic words into the text editor" and your code will be held together with bailing wire and chewing gum.

For day-to-day use, as long as you know what the code is doing when you run it, its fine. But to get to the point where you understand what the code is doing, you have to have written code manually.

Re: Advent of Code 2023's new AI/LLM Policy

#87

I wonder how long until they drop the leaderboard entirely. Most people are not realistically shooting for a spot on the leaderboard. It adds novelty value to know that some geniuses are out there who can solve a problem in 20 minutes which takes me over 4 hours, but the main value is my private leaderboard, and the enjoyment of solving the puzzles.

Yep, private leaderboards are where it’s at for me. Global pseudonymization dilutes accountability. I much prefer the book club feel of paying with people I know and trust, who all discuss the solutions as they work through them and are happy to provide hints to those who want them.

Re: Advent of Code 2023's new AI/LLM Policy

#88

"(If you want to use AI to help you solve puzzles, I can't really stop you, but I feel like it's harder to get better at programming if you ask an AI to do the programming for you.)" I'd say that whatever "better at programming" is quickly evolving. AI is a tool like high level languages, IDEs, autocomplete or all the different types of code analyzers. How is ignoring a powerful tool like AI going to get you better a…

There's a distinction between the short-term economic incentives of using AI (work gets done quicker, more code gets written, output is created faster) versus the long-term personal incentives of not using AI early on . I believe mathematics and various natural sciences benefit from having a complete understanding of the tools, their inner workings, and their potential use-cases within your head . I think programming…

This is an insightful comment. I have been thinking about why I prefer CLI-based tools over GUI tools; one important difference is that with CLI the affordances are more in my head than in the tool (though the distinction is fuzzy). I just got a typewriter for my birthday, and have been reflecting on how different writing feels. When I write on my laptop, I process language less in my head and more on the screen--I type scattered fragments and then clean them up into sentences and paragraphs. Writing with the typewriter is slower and much harder to edit, so I need to do more composition in my head. I lose some of the affordances of the external medium (including whatever AI might contribute), but necessarily devote more attention to interrogating and composing the ideas.

Re: Advent of Code 2023's new AI/LLM Policy

#89
Leaderboard will be dominated by AI-assisted speed runners this year. I think I’ll just solve them in the morning this year instead of trying to get on the leaderboard (I can usually get in the top 100 on the trickier ones). Will be better for my sleep anyway.

Re: Advent of Code 2023's new AI/LLM Policy

#90
As the person who came top of a round using GPT-3 last year:

1. The policy makes sense to me.

2. It would be fun to have an AI leaderboard too. It was a decent amount of engineering work to win last year — I had 25 LLMs going in parallel, then running their solutions against the sample problem in attempt to validate the solutions. So there is still a lot of space for innovation.

For those interested, I published a version of the code at https://github.com/max-sixty/aoc-gpt.

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