Why a GmbH in Germany? Sorry, that was not a good idea and will costs you money and nerves to fix that. Now you are locked into Germany even if your business can be operated from everywhere around the globe. If you move the GmbH out of Germany you have to pay GmbH fair value ; fair value according to German Tax Authority! Do a Holding GmbH + Operative GmbH to accumulate wealth tax efficiently. You could have your company on your name (Personengesellschaft) and operate from across the globe, especially with cheaper taxes and living expenses OR even found a GmbH-like company in a cheap tax haven and do vacation in Germany.
Bootstrapping a SaaS Business in Germany: How I did it
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Re: Bootstrapping a SaaS Business in Germany: How I did it
#12This is such a european startup story - where most energy is spent setting up a company and navigating bureaucracy rather than building a product. If anyone wonders why europe has such a lower number of startups this is why. And it’s not the government at fault. It’s the culture. Like seriously just pay someone 200€ to do this on your behalf and focus on stuff that matters not the “legal gray area” of earning pocket…
This varies wildly from country to country and Germany is known for their anal retentive bureaucracy and obsession with paper.
In many other countries who didn't have the mental anesthetics of "we are Germans, we are the best" and had to make a living and get competitive the process is much simpler ( not all, far from it ).
Also, "in the US is very easy and cheap" is a fallacy. First companies don't exist "in the US", they exist in states and the amount of shenanigans also varies. Don't forget the US has a very adversarial culture and if you don't be careful and pay a significant amount of money ( when you have some traction ) to a decent lawyer/accountant it's all fine and good until you get yourself in hot water with the IRS mixed with some kind of Better call Saul episode.
I have the general feeling the downside of things is much more lower in the US than in Europe, but I might be wrong.
Re: Bootstrapping a SaaS Business in Germany: How I did it
#13This is such a european startup story - where most energy is spent setting up a company and navigating bureaucracy rather than building a product. If anyone wonders why europe has such a lower number of startups this is why. And it’s not the government at fault. It’s the culture. Like seriously just pay someone 200€ to do this on your behalf and focus on stuff that matters not the “legal gray area” of earning pocket…
This varies wildly from country to country and Germany is known for their anal retentive bureaucracy and obsession with paper. In many other countries who didn't have the mental anesthetics of "we are Germans, we are the best" and had to make a living and get competitive the process is much simpler ( not all, far from it ). Also, "in the US is very easy and cheap" is a fallacy. First companies don't exist "in the US"…
I’ve opened dozens of companies (ok about a dozen) in the US. I can’t speak for every state, but in Florida and Wyoming it’s really simple. Can be done online and you absolutely do not need a lawyer, not at the beginning and not years later.
Re: Bootstrapping a SaaS Business in Germany: How I did it
#14Why a GmbH in Germany? Sorry, that was not a good idea and will costs you money and nerves to fix that. Now you are locked into Germany even if your business can be operated from everywhere around the globe. If you move the GmbH out of Germany you have to pay GmbH fair value ; fair value according to German Tax Authority! Do a Holding GmbH + Operative GmbH to accumulate wealth tax efficiently. You could have your com…
You seem very knowledgeable about this… do you have any resources that you could point me to, or a Steuerberater that you would recommend?
Re: Bootstrapping a SaaS Business in Germany: How I did it
#15[deleted]
Re: Bootstrapping a SaaS Business in Germany: How I did it
#16Question regarding the "Einzelunternehmer" vs "GmbH" topic: in terms of liability, going for the former seems a bit "optimistic" as you are personally liable, no? Depending on your business it might vary how high the dangers in this regards are, but for a SaaS business, DSGVO fines immediately come to mind.
Re: Bootstrapping a SaaS Business in Germany: How I did it
#17Question regarding the "Einzelunternehmer" vs "GmbH" topic: in terms of liability, going for the former seems a bit "optimistic" as you are personally liable, no? Depending on your business it might vary how high the dangers in this regards are, but for a SaaS business, DSGVO fines immediately come to mind.
I worry that Lukas is about to find out about the business end of the Umwandlungssteuergesetz: converting a Einzelunternehmen to a GmbH is a surprising amount of faff, and once you've done it you (normally) end up with a company you can't easily sell for 7 years without paying some pretty hard-core taxes. I got to do this whole dance early this year, and it took a big bite of momentum out of the little bootstrap I was trying to pull.
As weird as it sounds: German founders, consider just biting the bullet and doing a GmbH straight away. Conversion is no fun. And even worse, UGs are hated by everyone with a law degree for absolutely no reason, but they will try to make your life as difficult as they can just to show who is boss.
Re: Bootstrapping a SaaS Business in Germany: How I did it
#18Why a GmbH in Germany? Sorry, that was not a good idea and will costs you money and nerves to fix that. Now you are locked into Germany even if your business can be operated from everywhere around the globe. If you move the GmbH out of Germany you have to pay GmbH fair value ; fair value according to German Tax Authority! Do a Holding GmbH + Operative GmbH to accumulate wealth tax efficiently. You could have your com…
You seem very knowledgeable about this… do you have any resources that you could point me to, or a Steuerberater that you would recommend?
I will write you an email to support@stagetimer.io later tonight.
Re: Bootstrapping a SaaS Business in Germany: How I did it
#19Why a GmbH in Germany? Sorry, that was not a good idea and will costs you money and nerves to fix that. Now you are locked into Germany even if your business can be operated from everywhere around the globe. If you move the GmbH out of Germany you have to pay GmbH fair value ; fair value according to German Tax Authority! Do a Holding GmbH + Operative GmbH to accumulate wealth tax efficiently. You could have your com…
I think the days when you could just set up a company in some random country and run it from Germany are pretty over, the Finanzamt will just treat it as a domestic entity unless you can prove you've gone full nomad.
Re: Bootstrapping a SaaS Business in Germany: How I did it
#20Question regarding the "Einzelunternehmer" vs "GmbH" topic: in terms of liability, going for the former seems a bit "optimistic" as you are personally liable, no? Depending on your business it might vary how high the dangers in this regards are, but for a SaaS business, DSGVO fines immediately come to mind.
I worry that Lukas is about to find out about the business end of the Umwandlungssteuergesetz: converting a Einzelunternehmen to a GmbH is a surprising amount of faff, and once you've done it you (normally) end up with a company you can't easily sell for 7 years without paying some pretty hard-core taxes. I got to do this whole dance early this year, and it took a big bite of momentum out of the little bootstrap I wa…
Author here. I appreciate your points. I started the business as a learning experience without any thought of the end game. Now that I am wiser and with some money a GmbH is the way to go for the next business.