Earlier quoted context omitted.
While Jira does many many things right, it is also horrible in so many ways. What options are you evaluating?
We've moved to plain markdown in Git(Lab) as Confluence replacement. A CI pipeline compiles it to HTML and hosts it on the web via Material for MkDocs. It lacks most collaboration options for non-developer users, but we found that they are rarely, if at all, used anyway. Non-developer users can still use an edit button that points to GitLab's web editor and update the docs that way. I can't suggest a replacement for…
Atlassian prepares to abandon on-prem server products
101–110 of 205 posts
Re: Atlassian prepares to abandon on-prem server products
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
While Jira does many many things right, it is also horrible in so many ways. What options are you evaluating?
Not OP, but we moved to Gitlab Issues. Project Managers are missing some features, but the devs (including me) like it a lot more due to integrating so well with PRs/commits.
I double as a product manager and CTO, meaning I do both code and planning. We're using Github issues and Asana. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. I'd take both over Jira any day. And since I'm in charge, my company is blissfully free of anything Atlassian.
I kind of like Asana for planning. It's got a few sane features one of which is separating issues from projects. This allows me to quickly plan out projects and then add tickets to the relevant team boards. And another one is making it very easy to create issues in a spreadsheet like view that minimizes the click bureaucracy other tools have. Great when you basically are thinking at the bullet point level and just want to hit enter instead of having to fiddle with obnoxious modal forms.
Of course for developers Asana isn't great because it has no markdown support and no usable github integration (a few commercial things exist but they are basically glorified sync tools). Github issues have a few nice features as well. I like working with check lists and then converting the individual items to tasks. That comes close to how I like to use Asana.
Where Github falls off a cliff is what passes for project management. I don't know what their PMs were smoking but it's just completely wrong and useless. It kind of lives orthogonal to issues (!!!!!) and nothing syncs automatically except with really awkward github actions crap. So, it only serves to add a lot of bureaucracy and busy work without actually addressing the core problem. A combination of over engineered and inadequate.
The core issue with Github is that issues are tied to a single code repository. From a planning point of view that is just horrible because I manage a product consisting of multiple code repositories and I need one plan that may involve zero or more code repositories and not several and I don't want to lock in my issues to a single repository before I have even figured out what the plan is. I guess that's what they tried to fix with their project management thingy. Except they messed that up badly.
I'd love a tool that is a bit like Asana but more integrated with pull requests, CI/CD, the notion of work being distributed across multiple code repositories, teams, etc. I don't mean yet another sync thingy that copies tickets from system X to system Y. I would like a one stop shop that can be used throughout the life cycle of a software product from before any code is written until users / customers start reporting issues and everything in between. Doesn't exist.
Re: Atlassian prepares to abandon on-prem server products
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
Could you share what markdown/git tooling you've identified?
Not speaking for the GP. I use MkDocs and keep my personal notes. The only weak spot for me is that I haven't fully grokked search and as my notes grow, it can be harder to find things. I alternate between figuring out how search and how to bolt on some other search utility. MkDocs includes a utility to publish to Github pages but I keep my notes on a self hosted Gitea server and serve using "python -m http".
Having hundreds of out of date, and insecure word documents is a dismal affair when you get a call in the middle of the night.
For issue resolution, documents steps are moving right in to the ticketing system for linkage to incidents. That’s fine.
For general documentation though. It doesn’t belong in the ticketing system and what a pain in my ass.
Re: Atlassian prepares to abandon on-prem server products
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not OP, but we moved to Gitlab Issues. Project Managers are missing some features, but the devs (including me) like it a lot more due to integrating so well with PRs/commits.
One of the challenges of Gitlab is that the pricing does not work well in organizations where a significant portion of accounts would need to be non-developer roles. With devs and a premium tier, this isn't bad... but the "ok, we need to double the user count and move from premium to ultimate, even though most people are only looking for multi-level epics and the reporter role." That represents a significant cost inc…
Re: Atlassian prepares to abandon on-prem server products
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
Despite the "Azure" name, Azure DevOps Server (formerly Team Foundation Server), is still a rock-solid on-prem system for git repo hosting, issues/stories/projects, build automation, and the rest - though I feel it has stagnated somewhat, and git integration still feels half-baked compared to TFS's previous SVN-clone, but is still my first-choice for on-prem installs (granted, I'm still wedded to the MSFT stack).
ADO is the death knell to collaborative modern teams. Who the f wants to waste their day with that UX and feature set?
Re: Atlassian prepares to abandon on-prem server products
#106This is misleading because you can still buy the data center version which replaced the server version.
Re: Atlassian prepares to abandon on-prem server products
#107Using Atlassian cloud products is a business risk. They previously let customers sit for weeks without access to their data [1]. Cloud-hosted products do get early patches for unsecured /setup routes though [2], so there's that. At this point the decision has been made in our org to firewall their products off the internet and internal networks, and migrate to something else by 2024. [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?q=atl…
Re: Atlassian prepares to abandon on-prem server products
#108Using Atlassian cloud products is a business risk. They previously let customers sit for weeks without access to their data [1]. Cloud-hosted products do get early patches for unsecured /setup routes though [2], so there's that. At this point the decision has been made in our org to firewall their products off the internet and internal networks, and migrate to something else by 2024. [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?q=atl…
The products are too complicated to be packaged nearly with a bow for sysadmins. You inevitably start having to become at Atlassian SME just to keep that shit running.
I’m all for your company going with an alternative product, but for a company who would rather stick with Atlassian products, you’d be insane to prefer the on-premise version.
Either insane or you’re a giant company with heavy compliance requirements and you don’t mind hiring a dedicated person/team to operate the data center product and babysit other on-premise vendors’ services.
In my experience, I was running an on-premise Jira installation for a <100-person company, which was an insane waste of my time compared to the other tasks I could have been doing to help build our core product.
Re: Atlassian prepares to abandon on-prem server products
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
On prem is not being killed. They still have the data center products "To be clear, we have no plans to end of life or end of support for our Data Center offering." https://community.atlassian.com/t5/Data-Center-articles/The-...
This is the worst kind of correct. On-prem will keep existing IFF you have the capacity to pay for 500+ licenses. If you're a small to medium organization that still doesn't trust Atlassian to run your business-critical services (and there are a number of reasons why one might not want to: [0] [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] ) you're SOL. [0] https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/p/scoop-atlassian [1] https://www.zdnet.com/ar…
I would not connect any of these services directly to the Internet.
Re: Atlassian prepares to abandon on-prem server products
#110Using Atlassian cloud products is a business risk. They previously let customers sit for weeks without access to their data [1]. Cloud-hosted products do get early patches for unsecured /setup routes though [2], so there's that. At this point the decision has been made in our org to firewall their products off the internet and internal networks, and migrate to something else by 2024. [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?q=atl…
While Jira does many many things right, it is also horrible in so many ways. What options are you evaluating?
But Linear is goated