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Why aren't there more 80% jobs?

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Re: Why aren't there more 80% jobs?

#11

Post by rkachowski »

oldpersonintx wrote: post #7

The endgame for something like this is purely-dynamic percentages....i.e hourly pay. IMHO this is where many rank-and-file dev jobs are headed...you will be paid by the hour to close tickets, and when there are no tickets, there is no work, and no pay. Employers will sell this as a "benefit" like "unlimited PTO"...but it's really not Be careful about pursuing that four day work week...

This would require well defined tickets + work items with scope that is realistic, and an entire system behind the creation of these items which entails product + process understanding (not to mention designing tickets in a way which is minimally exploitable).

If this could happen we would advance the state of project management into the sci-fi era.

Re: Why aren't there more 80% jobs?

#12

Post by j7ake »

There are 80 percent jobs, but unlikely for highly sought after careers(note career != jobs) with nonlinear payoff functions.

Think of the NBA, Olympic athletes, or movie stars. The performance difference between the top 10 people versus unemployed is probably much less than 20 percent.

In the extreme case: a 100 m sprinter sprinting 12 seconds vs 10 seconds is the difference between gold vs unknown.

Re: Why aren't there more 80% jobs?

#13

Post by hnbad »

corethree wrote: post #4
hunglee2 wrote: post #2

I believe the Netherlands stipulates the requirement to offer every job as either part or full time, and a substantial number of job applicants go for the part time option, especially women. Interestingly, there have been some unintended downstream impact of this progressive law, such as lower women participation in senior level roles.

>Interestingly, there have been some unintended downstream impact of this progressive law, such as lower women participation in senior level roles This isn't downstream impact. It's more of a choice. The women choose not to strive for senior level roles. They express this choice by choosing the 4 day work week. We shouldn't call it an unintended downstream impact because it's not something that should be corrected. I…

Interesting to see someone on HN of all places equate longer hours with "working harder" or being more qualified for senior roles.

Speaking from personal experience with a cohort of Millenial dads: a lot of "women working less to prioritize family" comes down to women being expected to be caregivers and men typically not having experienced the same socialization from a young age and feeling overwhelmed, thus retreating into work to both avoid care work and be able to justify it by being "the provider".

It's pretty telling when we chastise women for "not pulling their weight" at work when they're also typically expected to do most of the household chores, social labor (e.g. keeping track of birthdays, relationships and preferences throughout the family's social circles) and caregiving but don't call out deadbeat dads like Elon Musk who sire new children left and right while being completely incapable of maintaining a relationship with any of the mothers and abandoning any child that calls him out for his bullshit once they get old enough to form an opinion. And as a reminder: Musk holds several official positions including multiple C-tier ones and still spends an ungodly amount of time shitposting on Twitter. If you think that the time he spends on any one of his jobs on average accounts for more than the equivalent of a 4 day work week while also being this heavily distracted and spread thin, you're being ridiculous.

Re: Why aren't there more 80% jobs?

#14

Post by corethree »

sunbum wrote: post #9
corethree wrote: post #8

Honestly everyone is just happier in Scandinavia. I feel most of the innovation comes from the US though, but this isn't a disadvantage for the Netherlands because technology developed in the US percolates to them as well. They get the benefits without the downsides. Heck I remember reading about how more people own Tesla's their then here.

The Netherlands are not in Scandinavia?

Ok, I meant Scandinavian influenced or Scandinavian-like countries.

Re: Why aren't there more 80% jobs?

#16

Post by inferense »

more people does not necessarily correlate with higher productivity, quite the opposite in many cases. Larger headcount introduces more meetings, more processes, slower decision making and overall less agile teams.

80% jobs are maybe a fit for a large established orgs while unthinkable for small teams solving hard problems with limited resources.

Re: Why aren't there more 80% jobs?

#18

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

oldpersonintx wrote: post #7

The endgame for something like this is purely-dynamic percentages....i.e hourly pay. IMHO this is where many rank-and-file dev jobs are headed...you will be paid by the hour to close tickets, and when there are no tickets, there is no work, and no pay. Employers will sell this as a "benefit" like "unlimited PTO"...but it's really not Be careful about pursuing that four day work week...

The difference between working 32 hours a week and 40 is far, far less than the difference between working a fixed number of hours and a variable number that your employer dictates. What's more, the article supports even the 32 hour/week being an option.

Re: Why aren't there more 80% jobs?

#19

Post by sph »

Can we stop calling 4 days a week "part time"? It is not. Part time means I can have two part time jobs if I want, or have a lot of free time for whatever else.

32 hours a week is not part time. It is a less stressful version of full-time. Please don't dilute the meaning of part-time work.

Sincerely, someone that is looking for 20h/wk part time contracts while bootstrapping a business.

Re: Why aren't there more 80% jobs?

#20

Post by fakedang »

j7ake wrote: post #12

There are 80 percent jobs, but unlikely for highly sought after careers(note career != jobs) with nonlinear payoff functions. Think of the NBA, Olympic athletes, or movie stars. The performance difference between the top 10 people versus unemployed is probably much less than 20 percent. In the extreme case: a 100 m sprinter sprinting 12 seconds vs 10 seconds is the difference between gold vs unknown.

Why compare apples and oranges? Most jobs aren't as NBA athletes, Olympic athletes or movie stars.

Those aren't highly sought after careers either. That privilege goes to whichever careers pay more as a median. It's only kids who want to become moonshot stars.

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