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How to build a universe that doesn’t fall apart two days later (1978)

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Re: How to build a universe that doesn’t fall apart two days later (1978)

#11

Post by quonn »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #6

“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away.” Great quote. So great I even posted it to my twitter account (my other bookmarking service) But the paste dropped the end quote mark and added a comma to the front. HN did not and did the above paste just fine. It bothers me, and I don't know why.

But the quote is only great on one level. If we give it some thought it is not so great. Why?

Because our mind evolved as a tool for survival of our self which is to say as a tool for survival of that which may pass on the genes which create said mind.

This mind is, by default, full of illusions, full of a particularly biased view of the world and the content of that view does not go away when we stop believing in it and looks to us just like reality.

This is the whole point of meditation, but even if you do not believe in meditation yet, it can be observed in yourself and in others.

In short the statement is only true for the rather small subset of things that can be scientifically investigated and on that level beliefs are not a category of concern anyway. It‘s a statement about the content of the world without an observer, but the observer-world interface is the more interesting part, the observer cannot be removed and any beliefs come from the observer in the first place.

Re: How to build a universe that doesn’t fall apart two days later (1978)

#12

Post by Physkal »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #8
Physkal wrote: post #4

This might be my first request for a chatgpt summary.

Not to get too confrontational but why? The point of reading text by a talented author is to read his/her words in the way they wrote it. Otherwise it's all "14 year old girl wanted to test if her boyfriend would really get upset if she died, faked her death, it goes horribly wrong"

Time investment? There is also no context? Fiction, nonfiction? As a reader how would I know what I am getting myself into? and how would I know on first click this a talented artist.

Re: How to build a universe that doesn’t fall apart two days later (1978)

#13

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

Physkal wrote: post #12
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to get too confrontational but why? The point of reading text by a talented author is to read his/her words in the way they wrote it. Otherwise it's all "14 year old girl wanted to test if her boyfriend would really get upset if she died, faked her death, it goes horribly wrong"

Time investment? There is also no context? Fiction, nonfiction? As a reader how would I know what I am getting myself into? and how would I know on first click this a talented artist.

If you are a Sci-Fi fan, then you should now already or learn now, that Philip K. Dick is "a talented artist" in the American canon. Or you could ask Wikipedia who he was. Or chatGPT if you don't mind fake knowledge.

That is what makes the essay interesting, not the mildly paranoid musings about synchronicity, fakes, human kindness and drug dealing.

If you're not a Philip K. Dick fan or a Sci-Fi fan, walk on.

Re: How to build a universe that doesn’t fall apart two days later (1978)

#14

Post by hutzlibu »

quonn wrote: post #11
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #6

“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away.” Great quote. So great I even posted it to my twitter account (my other bookmarking service) But the paste dropped the end quote mark and added a comma to the front. HN did not and did the above paste just fine. It bothers me, and I don't know why.

But the quote is only great on one level. If we give it some thought it is not so great. Why? Because our mind evolved as a tool for survival of our self which is to say as a tool for survival of that which may pass on the genes which create said mind. This mind is, by default, full of illusions, full of a particularly biased view of the world and the content of that view does not go away when we stop believing in it…

"In short the statement is only true for the rather small subset of things that can be scientifically investigated"

Which fundamental things cannot get scientifically investigated?

Re: How to build a universe that doesn’t fall apart two days later (1978)

#15

Post by chmod775 »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #8
Physkal wrote: post #4

This might be my first request for a chatgpt summary.

Not to get too confrontational but why? The point of reading text by a talented author is to read his/her words in the way they wrote it. Otherwise it's all "14 year old girl wanted to test if her boyfriend would really get upset if she died, faked her death, it goes horribly wrong"

I was about to agree with you and lay on them too, then I asked myself why I alt-tabbed to read HN comments midway through.

If that was printed or I was reading it on my e-reader, I'd probably enjoy it just like I did enjoy reading some of his novels, but as of now I'm not lounging on a couch with a cup of tea and some cookies. Reading on a screen is way less comfortable and many of us will be reading HN stories as a momentary distraction as work - attention spans not primed for this sort of long-form writing.

Hope that answers your question as to why someone would not read it right now. Since we're human it is no surprise one would be curious as to what it is about anyways - and request a summary.

Personally I'm shelving it to be read later.

Re: How to build a universe that doesn’t fall apart two days later (1978)

#16

Post by Barrin92 »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #7

Ironic, given that a hallmark of a "Phildickian" work is that the protagonist's reality can fall apart before the end of the work. https://philipdick.com/literary-criticism/essays/phildickian...

Even casually throughout his stories. There's a great scene in Ubik where a group plans a heist and the there's a weird shift in reality just in the middle of a conversation basically.

Dick was fantastic at creating these disorienting, unnerving situations.

Re: How to build a universe that doesn’t fall apart two days later (1978)

#17

Post by chmod775 »

Physkal wrote: post #12
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to get too confrontational but why? The point of reading text by a talented author is to read his/her words in the way they wrote it. Otherwise it's all "14 year old girl wanted to test if her boyfriend would really get upset if she died, faked her death, it goes horribly wrong"

Time investment? There is also no context? Fiction, nonfiction? As a reader how would I know what I am getting myself into? and how would I know on first click this a talented artist.

Okay to be fair, Philip K. Dick is somewhat of a known quantity.

Re: How to build a universe that doesn’t fall apart two days later (1978)

#18

Post by _hzw »

Physkal wrote: post #12
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to get too confrontational but why? The point of reading text by a talented author is to read his/her words in the way they wrote it. Otherwise it's all "14 year old girl wanted to test if her boyfriend would really get upset if she died, faked her death, it goes horribly wrong"

Time investment? There is also no context? Fiction, nonfiction? As a reader how would I know what I am getting myself into? and how would I know on first click this a talented artist.

There's no adventure if you know what lies ahead. But I suppose some are fine without adventure in their lives.

Re: How to build a universe that doesn’t fall apart two days later (1978)

#19

Post by robocat »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #7

Ironic, given that a hallmark of a "Phildickian" work is that the protagonist's reality can fall apart before the end of the work. https://philipdick.com/literary-criticism/essays/phildickian...

From article:

  I ask, in my writing, What is real? Because unceasingly we are bombarded with pseudo-realities manufactured by very sophisticated people using very sophisticated electronic mechanisms. I do not distrust their motives; I distrust their power. They have a lot of it. And it is an astonishing power: that of creating whole universes, universes of the mind. I ought to know. I do the same thing. It is my job to create universes, as the basis of one novel after another. And I have to build them in such a way that they do not fall apart two days later. Or at least that is what my editors hope. However, I will reveal a secret to you: I like to build universes which do fall apart. I like to see them come unglued, and I like to see how the characters in the novels cope with this problem. I have a secret love of chaos.

Re: How to build a universe that doesn’t fall apart two days later (1978)

#20

Post by Ensorceled »

quonn wrote: post #11
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #6

“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away.” Great quote. So great I even posted it to my twitter account (my other bookmarking service) But the paste dropped the end quote mark and added a comma to the front. HN did not and did the above paste just fine. It bothers me, and I don't know why.

But the quote is only great on one level. If we give it some thought it is not so great. Why? Because our mind evolved as a tool for survival of our self which is to say as a tool for survival of that which may pass on the genes which create said mind. This mind is, by default, full of illusions, full of a particularly biased view of the world and the content of that view does not go away when we stop believing in it…

> It‘s a statement about the content of the world without an observer, but the observer-world interface is the more interesting part, the observer cannot be removed and any beliefs come from the observer in the first place.

It’s literally a statement ABOUT the observer-world interface. In general, assuming anything from Dick is pedestrian is kind of foolish.

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