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Omnigres: Postgres as a Platform

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Re: Omnigres: Postgres as a Platform

#21

Post by axelthegerman »

rtpg wrote: post #14

This sort of stuff (and a lot of other popular things) highlights something that I've felt for years: we are still so far away from a good ops story as an industry. Why would someone use this? Because they only want to deal with "one thing" in production. Dealing with multiple stacks is annoying. People show stuff like kubernetes as a way to handle multiple stacks. That stuff is also complicated. There is still a hug…

I hear you about the need for simplistic hosting.

However I doubt shoving everything into the DB will get us there - besides some hardcore PG enthusiasts like OP & co.

Sqlite together with the application layer of your choice seems to make much more sense to me, but hey we don't have to all like the same stuff (better we don't).

Also without reading too much in detail but I wonder how testing/monitoring etc would be supported

Re: Omnigres: Postgres as a Platform

#24

Post by yrashk »

axelthegerman wrote: post #20
a-b wrote: post #16

Omnigress developed a fresh view of the otherwise stalled industry approach to deploying and running software. Edge computing is a way to go!

I didn't read anything about edge computing in the project readme. Deploying a single instance would be the opposite of that. Unless you mean edge as opposed to mainstream?

It's not currently spelled out in the readme, but our approach does lend for straightforward shipping of complete systems (data + code) to the edge because it's effectively just a replication of the database. We're working on further primitives that facilitate such an operational model.

We believe that a practical edge [backend] requires the presence of data next to the code, which is precisely what Omnigres promotes.

Re: Omnigres: Postgres as a Platform

#26

Post by Inviz »

yrashk wrote: post #18
Inviz wrote: post #17

I did something similar once, but integrated everything RESTful into nginx which connected to postgres directly, which ran triggers with JS. What I didnt like about it is being bound by max connections to postgres, and then blocking postgres thread when running javascript in it. The parallelization story just wasnt competitive enough. Is this something that omnigres addresses?

We don't really use connections but a pool of workers to process requests. Having http server tightly coupled with the database server makes for a responsive combo. We are still blocking workers, but prototyping improvements that will alleviate this.

Oh it's Yuri Rashkovskii, one name I actually remember from the olden times.

I think you have a good project on hands, happy to see you could establish it as a tech startup. Over the years my mind keeps wandering into this place where an apps are much tigther integrated with the database. Where a full class of engineering tasks (and bugs caused by them) is eliminated completely. I'll be checking your progress.

Re: Omnigres: Postgres as a Platform

#27

Post by yrashk »

Thank you for posting Omnigres on HN!

Just a quick note to the readers: we're still in the early days, in a pre-release mode. A lot of things work, but not everything is there yet and there are some bugs (we know some for sure!). A lot to come as we progress: first-class Python support, CLI, schema & package management, etc.

Our initial users are using it with our support and our timeline is sometimes advised by their milestones.

That said, happy to see you try it out and please join our Discord (https://discord.omnigr.es/) if you want to chat.

Re: Omnigres: Postgres as a Platform

#28

Post by ndriscoll »

civilized wrote: post #11
lovasoa wrote: post #6

Nice to see Omnigres trending on hn; congratulations Yurii! The project is interesting, and thought provoking, because it goes against the often recommended "good practice" of separating storage and compute. Doing the exact opposite has a lot to offer in terms of performance, simplicity, and speed of development. I am currently also working on a database-first web application framework [1], with different goals and u…

> the often recommended "good practice" of separating storage and compute. This gets me thinking... has developer conventional wisdom ever recommended binding things together? Or does it only ever recommend more separation, more abstraction?

10 years ago when people still used the term "big data" there was some enterprise buzzword usage around "hyper convergence" that was supposed to make it easy to bring compute and storage together/move compute jobs close to the storage they were supposed to operate on. I guess the idea was something like if you had a map-reduce job, you have some scheduler that runs workers on nodes that are in the same rack/directly connected to the storage partition they'll need.

Re: Omnigres: Postgres as a Platform

#29

Post by renewiltord »

civilized wrote: post #11
lovasoa wrote: post #6

Nice to see Omnigres trending on hn; congratulations Yurii! The project is interesting, and thought provoking, because it goes against the often recommended "good practice" of separating storage and compute. Doing the exact opposite has a lot to offer in terms of performance, simplicity, and speed of development. I am currently also working on a database-first web application framework [1], with different goals and u…

> the often recommended "good practice" of separating storage and compute. This gets me thinking... has developer conventional wisdom ever recommended binding things together? Or does it only ever recommend more separation, more abstraction?

Mechanical sympathy. And conventional low-latency systems do that as much as possible - binding all sorts of layers. When you're picking the first few bytes of the packet and semi-parsing it, you don't traditionally and conventionally have that go through some vtable and perform dynamic dispatch to find the right parser or whatever. It's all plugged into everything monolithically.

Re: Omnigres: Postgres as a Platform

#30

Post by ako »

lovasoa wrote: post #6

Nice to see Omnigres trending on hn; congratulations Yurii! The project is interesting, and thought provoking, because it goes against the often recommended "good practice" of separating storage and compute. Doing the exact opposite has a lot to offer in terms of performance, simplicity, and speed of development. I am currently also working on a database-first web application framework [1], with different goals and u…

Oracle has had this for ages, I’ve built websites by printing html from the database I think somewhere back in ‘97/‘98. Oracle’s framework has grown into an entire low code development tool running in the database: oracle apex.

It works and can scale far enough that it allowed entire corporate websites to be run from an oracle database.

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