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Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

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Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#41

Post by toomuchtodo »

causality0 wrote: post #38
toomuchtodo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FedNow instant payments in the US. Already live, just taking time to ramp (already plugged into 108 banks and financial services providers, including JPMC and the US Treasury). What it could look like is India’s UPI. UPI is so detrimental to Mastercard’s India business it complains about it publicly. In Europe, more aggressive adoption of SEPA instant payments. TLDR utility priced payment rails provided by a central…

FedNow is a great step but most of the people I've asked tell me it isn't going to do anything to stop people from being debanked for "morality" reasons like sex work.

You’re only solutions for that are physical cash, crypto, gift cards, etc. The legal framework and value transfer systems are tightly coupled. Your bank isn’t going to break the law for you (maybe HSBC).

Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#42

Post by wintermutestwin »

gruez wrote: post #20
doctorpangloss wrote: post #4

This comment is meant to get an interesting conversation instead of "mastercard bad" or whatever. Would the EFF feel any differently if the data were pseudo-anonymous and open to everyone? You can go to SteamDB.info and learn a lot about millions of people based on what games they buy. It's a psuedo-anonymous per-user purchase history. Here's mine: https://steamdb.info/calculator/76561197975362423/?cc=us . You can lo…

>You can go to SteamDB.info and learn a lot about millions of people based on what games they buy. It's a psuedo-anonymous per-user purchase history. Here's mine: https://steamdb.info/calculator/76561197975362423/?cc=us . You can look up basically anyone on Steam, and even do advanced math on all of it. It's been going on for at least a decade. can't you opt out by making your profile private?

Note that you can set this data to private - I can't see my steam data on this site...

Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#43

Post by the_shivers »

wkat4242 wrote: post #5

We should have a payment system that isn't held hostage by two providers anyway. At least here in Europe MasterCard and visa are the only options. Amex and Discovery are really unusable here. Besides selling our data this also means we get American morals pushed on us, eg they won't provide payments for some websites they don't like. But how do you break up such a duopoly?

This is anecdata, so take it with a grain of salt, but I hear this isn't motivated by morals at all. Instead, people who spend on things like OnlyFans tend to later claim that those charges were fraudulent, expecting to get their money back. If true, it makes sense that Visa/Mastercard might ban this sort of stuff just to avoid the headache.

Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#45

Post by jadayesnaamsi »

wkat4242 wrote: post #5

We should have a payment system that isn't held hostage by two providers anyway. At least here in Europe MasterCard and visa are the only options. Amex and Discovery are really unusable here. Besides selling our data this also means we get American morals pushed on us, eg they won't provide payments for some websites they don't like. But how do you break up such a duopoly?

The EU has something on the way called EPI for European Payment Initiative:

https://www.epicompany.eu/

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/intro/news/html/ecb.mipnews23...

Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#46

Post by hiatus »

figmert wrote: post #26
ssl232 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But how do you break up such a duopoly? Start buying things with cash again.

Yes! Let's ignore the fact that more and more companies do not take money at all. Problem solved.

More and more places are banning cashless companies. Delaware, NJ, Pittsburgh, NYC, San Francisco. Likely more to come.

Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#47

Post by jowea »

causality0 wrote: post #38
toomuchtodo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FedNow instant payments in the US. Already live, just taking time to ramp (already plugged into 108 banks and financial services providers, including JPMC and the US Treasury). What it could look like is India’s UPI. UPI is so detrimental to Mastercard’s India business it complains about it publicly. In Europe, more aggressive adoption of SEPA instant payments. TLDR utility priced payment rails provided by a central…

FedNow is a great step but most of the people I've asked tell me it isn't going to do anything to stop people from being debanked for "morality" reasons like sex work.

It would have to the banks themselves banning their customers, right?

Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#48

Post by pasc1878 »

zeristor wrote: post #36
anotherhue wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has been tried * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_(debit_card) * https://www.reuters.com/technology/europes-planned-rival-vis... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocard_(credit_card)

You forgot the Access Credit card: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Access_(credit_card) They spent all that money on advertising, I still remember it, but for what? This and Harding and Hobbs

Eurocard and Access got merged into MasterCard

So European cards worked but the owners ie banks wanted global ones.

Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#49

Post by jowea »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #31
gruez wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You can go to SteamDB.info and learn a lot about millions of people based on what games they buy. It's a psuedo-anonymous per-user purchase history. Here's mine: https://steamdb.info/calculator/76561197975362423/?cc=us . You can look up basically anyone on Steam, and even do advanced math on all of it. It's been going on for at least a decade. can't you opt out by making your profile private?

Sure, but if you game this out, it still comes down to whether or not your opinion is that this data should be public. That Steam's methodology happens to be opt-out sharing - in other words their opinion is it should be shared, because people don't change defaults - doesn't change that there haven't been any known major harms and many major benefits, especially in the opinions of game developers.

Never seen what gamedevs think of it, you remember what they think of this data?

Re: Mastercard Should Stop Selling Our Data

#50

Post by nicoburns »

saghm wrote: post #39
wkat4242 wrote: post #5

We should have a payment system that isn't held hostage by two providers anyway. At least here in Europe MasterCard and visa are the only options. Amex and Discovery are really unusable here. Besides selling our data this also means we get American morals pushed on us, eg they won't provide payments for some websites they don't like. But how do you break up such a duopoly?

> At least here in Europe MasterCard and visa are the only options. Amex and Discovery are really unusable here Growing up, my parents had a Discover card (among others) and everywhere we went, I remember them asking if they took Discover because so many places didn't. It wasn't until years later when I saw the joke about this on Futurama that I realized this wasn't a unique experience: > Fry: Do you take Mastercard?…

Huh. I hadn't even heard of Discover.
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