Live data from Hacker News

The Decades-Long Travesty That Made Millions of Americans Mistrust Their Schools

slate.com

41–50 of 90 posts

Re: The Decades-Long Travesty That Made Millions of Americans Mistrust Their Schools

#41
post #15

> the goofy glasses teachers wore for group reading time to make the written word less intimidating; in the assurances to parents that the best way to help children read was to read out loud to them to instill a love of language and literature; in the artfully arranged reading nooks stocked with cushions, mats, and an appealing array of books; in the hours that teachers instructed young children to sit in those nooks…

lol you really want to drive this point home? Hate teachers much?

Re: The Decades-Long Travesty That Made Millions of Americans Mistrust Their Schools

#42

I find it ridiculous that the author had not already taught their children to read prior to kindergarten.

Children's early aptitudes for all these non-trivial skills vary enormously. There's also minimal later consequence. Basically the fact your five year old can multiply and mine can't count properly actually isn't strongly predictive for which of them is going to be a Fields Medal winner.

Kids who exhibit interest in acquiring written language skills should be encouraged, but so should kids who are interested in dancing, or playing a musical instrument, or a hundred other things. Unless your kid's main hobby is torturing flies or something they should be encouraged to do things they enjoy, especially before school makes them do some things that, inevitably, they don't enjoy, whether that's writing things down, climbing, or learning about stuff that happened a long time ago.

Re: The Decades-Long Travesty That Made Millions of Americans Mistrust Their Schools

#43
post #12

This was a pretty poor article. They never really explained what balanced literacy is, what its key positions are, or how it measured success. Nor do they really explain how their ideas would be better, or adress failings of balanced literacy.

Yeah, what's odd to me reading this article and then going and reading elsewhere about "balanced literacy" (which I hadn't heard of before) is that it sounds like this parent's teachers weren't using balanced literacy at all—what they describe is just the whole language method. Balanced literacy supposedly was meant to bridge the gap and use both whole language and phonics in the same program, and the author is pretty clear that phonics didn't feature in their instruction at all.

It sounds to me like either someone in the curriculum development process or the teachers themselves were anti-phonics and stripped them out of the "balanced" process, so this parent's experience may not be reflective of the typical results of a truly balanced method.

Re: The Decades-Long Travesty That Made Millions of Americans Mistrust Their Schools

#44
Just an observation from an educational outsider. In the 1970s I was a US peace corps volunteer in one of the more impoverished rural counties in South Korea. My job in a health center required learning and using the Korean language. The grammar (with complicated speech levels, etc.) is daunting, but the alphabet remarkably rational and easy to learn. Even in remote villages with a rudimentary standard of living, I never encountered an illiterate person and never heard of a student who could not read. The fabled Korean obsession with education is surely important, but I do believe the sheer ease and clarity of the Korean alphabet plays an important role in universal literacy there. A lesson for English speakers?

Re: The Decades-Long Travesty That Made Millions of Americans Mistrust Their Schools

#45
Three thoughts,

Is it really true that 1 in 4 schools stopped teaching kids to associate sounds with letters so they could sound out words? That sounds so insane it beggars belief. If that's true then no wonder people don't trust schools; trust isn't warranted. But the idea is so insane on the face of it that I have trouble believing it.

Secondly, if 1 in 4 schools did this and half of the students in these schools fail at reading because of it, then "and a large part of why more than half of our country’s fourth graders aren’t demonstrating proficiency on reading exams." seems a bit dubious. If school's adopted this program independent of school size and half of the students at those schools struggled to read for this reason alone, then I'd expect roughly 1/8th of all students nationally to be negatively effected, not one half.

Third, it would have been nice for this article to go more into the history of the idea. It pretty much lays all the blame on this Lucy Calkins and Teachers College Reading and Writing Project, but also blames this line of thinking for a 1973 SCOTUS decision. That was several years before the Teachers College Reading and Writing Project was founded, but the article doesn't go into this history.

Re: The Decades-Long Travesty That Made Millions of Americans Mistrust Their Schools

#46
post #28
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

I wouldn't say that the teachers are necessarily bad or lazy, just as I wouldn't say devs are bad or lazy. However, I do agree with some of what the prior person was saying. If anyone is given the option to do something in an easier way, they're likely to do it. I think the teachers/schools would have selected the tablets/laptops because the education companies selling them marketed them as an improvement. In some ways they are. In other ways, I'm not so sure.

Look at devs. It's easy to create a Lambda on AWS, or to drop some files in S3. It's faster, cheaper, etc than setting up the infrastructure yourself (typically). Now these devs have no idea of how to set up servers, NAS, etc. Who cares about optimization because the details are handled for you. Now we'll wait and see how it plays out. Same thing for early laptop use as primary learning medium. Maybe handwriting and lack of spellchecker won't be a big deal in the real world.

Also, I'm touring local schools currently. The ones so far has said they do a hybrid of physical and laptop learning. So far every class I've walked past has the kids on the laptop except for an art class.

Re: The Decades-Long Travesty That Made Millions of Americans Mistrust Their Schools

#47

Just an observation from an educational outsider. In the 1970s I was a US peace corps volunteer in one of the more impoverished rural counties in South Korea. My job in a health center required learning and using the Korean language. The grammar (with complicated speech levels, etc.) is daunting, but the alphabet remarkably rational and easy to learn. Even in remote villages with a rudimentary standard of living, I n…

Is the lesson that we should switch to Korean? English may not be ideally 'designed' but how would you change how English is written without causing havoc for the billions of people who already learned it?

Re: The Decades-Long Travesty That Made Millions of Americans Mistrust Their Schools

#48
post #34

my three year old (just this week, 4) had somehow learned to read on his own (he is on the spectrum). He seem to have picked up both sight reading and phonics as best as I can tell. He will try to sound out the word sometimes, but largely just looks at the word. If it’s big word a , like “awesomeness”, he will try to sound it out, at least a bit. The Dr Seuss books are a piece of cake and he could read them at 3 1/2.

This was me, only pushed back by about two years. I entered first grade unable to read, and left it reading full novels. All credit to my first grade teacher for whatever she did do, but other kids in the class didn't undergo that same transformation.

Re: The Decades-Long Travesty That Made Millions of Americans Mistrust Their Schools

#49
post #17

English as a language doesn't help, being a disaster for learning to read. My native Swedish is annoying and hard enough for my kids and it's a paragon of logic and consistency compared to English.

Native english speaker here -- while I understand it's easy to come up with lists that show off the worst inconsistencies, I honestly think of those as the exception rather than the rule. Can you list out some of the most common, worst issues you see with english? I'm really curious.

Re: The Decades-Long Travesty That Made Millions of Americans Mistrust Their Schools

#50
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree on the digital stuff. I really don't like that kids are primarily using Chrome books and stuff as their primary mode of learning. Maybe that would be fine in high school, but I feel that elementary and middle schools should be taught with physical media. I'm touring schools in my area now (k-8) to figure out where we want to send our kids. One school says the kids get hybrid instruction, but every single clas…

I hate it. The over reliance on “Canvas” Which on the surface seems like such of a convenience. But every time I watch my kid turn in his math homework by holding his 2-sided worksheet up to the webcam I just cringe. He’ll never get any reasonable feedback on his work because it’s impossible to read. Some assignments have “spot check” questions where you input the answer on Canvas. Instructions like “make sure you sp…

Absolutely a lot of it is forced at the district or school level. I had a friend who decided they didn't want to teach because of the policies they encountered student teaching (and partly the apathy and behavior of students). I have another friend who will only teach at private schools, even if they pay less for similar reasons.
Post reply on HN