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Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

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Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#131

Post by arcatech »

toomanyrichers wrote: post #130
arcatech wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've been very lucky, I've not had to apply for many jobs. But when I have, I always wrote a specific cover letter AND customized my resume to the job advert. You're self selecting for people who happen to be as privileged as you are. Maybe that's what you want, but I'm not surprised it's been more difficult than you were expecting.

“Privileged” has become a 4 letter word bandied about only to disparage one’s opponent. It’s absolute bullshit. What precisely do you mean?

Being lucky enough to always have the time to narrow your job search to a few employers and tailor your resume and cover letter to those few is a privileged position. Many people (like those who have been laid off, just out of college and have student loan debt, or are just in any general position where they need income quickly) have to play the numbers game and literally can’t afford to take this person’s advice.

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#132

Post by austin-cheney »

linsomniac wrote: post #23

A couple weeks ago we put a advert out on Indeed and also listed it here on HN. Initially we didn't have any further qualifications beyond the job post, which did indeed go into details on the job and requesting a cover letter. After spending a couple days of 2-3 hours each on reviewing resumes that were "only ok", we started adding additional hoops for getting resumes in, and also tried to put in a gatekeeper to rea…

> But, yeah, we're having a hard time finding full-stack people that can hit the ground running with Java and Vue.

Why would anybody want to do that? This is actually a serious question. Why would you expect Java developers to want to write frontend JavaScript code? I have seen a lot of positions come up like this and the employer is always left cluelessly scratching their heads as to why hiring is so hard. Is this a problem of expectation management or poor empathy?

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#133

Post by Gud »

austin-cheney wrote: post #132
linsomniac wrote: post #23

A couple weeks ago we put a advert out on Indeed and also listed it here on HN. Initially we didn't have any further qualifications beyond the job post, which did indeed go into details on the job and requesting a cover letter. After spending a couple days of 2-3 hours each on reviewing resumes that were "only ok", we started adding additional hoops for getting resumes in, and also tried to put in a gatekeeper to rea…

> But, yeah, we're having a hard time finding full-stack people that can hit the ground running with Java and Vue. Why would anybody want to do that? This is actually a serious question. Why would you expect Java developers to want to write frontend JavaScript code? I have seen a lot of positions come up like this and the employer is always left cluelessly scratching their heads as to why hiring is so hard. Is this a…

Why not? Many people thrive when working with the full stack. Why does everything need to be so compartmentalized?

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#134

Post by ochronus »

Data point from Berlin/Amsterdam/Munich/Dublin/Madrid (plus EU remote in general): we've been hiring around 100+ seniors/leads/staffengs (backend/frontend engineers) in the past 9 months, and it's been quite easy. Healthy influx, no major delays.

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#135

Post by tester756 »

janalsncm wrote: post #112
tester756 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree as hell. Yea, sure, cover letter for some JoeSoft writing crud apps may be weird but for fancier jobs I don't really see problem with cover letters where candidate can share something more human than CV's "i've did blabla" like passion, motivation, etc, etc. And highly motivated employee may be way more valuable than more skilled employee

> highly motivated employee Is there any evidence that writing a cover letter means they will be a motivated employee? What motivates me is the problem that I am solving on the job. I am extremely motivated to solve that specific task. If you ask me to write a cover letter about myself, I have zero motivation to do that because the evaluation criteria are unclear and half the companies don’t read them to begin with.…

>Is there any evidence that writing a cover letter means they will be a motivated employee

I meant evaluating this by reading the content.

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#136

Post by quickthrower2 »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #3
towhom wrote: post #2

Seems like hiring has been broken forever. Even with the plethora of job sites like LinkedIn it doesn't seem any better. Someone who can come up with a better way of matching up candidates with hiring managers could do really well, but apparently the problem is quite hard since there's been a lot of attempts but not much success.

Someone on another thread here about hiring in the ML/AI space bemoaned the fact that they mostly get applications from people who have dabbled with ML/AI on the side and very few applicants who have actual ML/AI work experience. But it seems like the ML/AI space is still nascent and growing rapidly - you're not going to find a lot of available people with ML/AI work experience. Given that ML/AI is where a lot of cur…

“We need 10 years GPT experience!”

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#137

Post by bostik »

vlod wrote: post #44
dzek69 wrote: post #17

I'm working at crypto startup that grows fast right now. There is enough candidates, but we can't find anyone good. We aim for seniors and we pay a nice price IMO. Current "seniors" are much worse than 2016's "middles". I'd not mind hiring a "middle", but people seem so unmotivated right now to work and learn. It's more about the attitude than skills. Also funny stats: For 15 candidates interviewed we even got "scamm…

>but people seem so unmotivated right now to work and learn Hmm.. not been my experience and not for me specifically. My attitude to interviewing (when I was on that side of the fence), was to hire for (I hate to say it as it's subjective), by perceived IQ and their drive to learn/get stuff done. It usually worked out quite well for my hires. ATM, I'm getting rejected for the most stupid f.things of not knowing some…

> My thoughts is that there's so many candidates (or maybe posting bots?), that if all checkboxes are not ticked, they can discard them.

About 25 years ago, friend used to have a bullshit detector skill in the job spec requirements. "Experience with: [real things], RFC 1149, [at least one more real thing]." Anyone who claimed experience in that one was automatically rejected. And yes, that was well before a Norwegian user group actually pulled "IP Over Avian Carriers" off in real life.

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#138

Post by taurath »

angmarsbane wrote: post #120
andrewstuart wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This need for a cover letter is essentially asking candidates to tell you how much they love the company and how much they want the job. Why is this important beyond making the company feel loved? As a job applicant I’m not going to invest a minute in your company until you’ve read my resume and expressed an interest. Theres hundreds of companies out there employing who want your time but give nothing back. I know ne…

My cover letter has always been a 3 row 2 column chart. Column 1 is a job requirement/ideal candidate trait from the job post. Column 2 is an example of how I meet that requirement. I limit it to what seem to be the top 3 asks from the company. The result is a quickly scannable, pretty direct and memorable cover letter.

Does it get more replies than when you don’t?

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#139

Post by taurath »

linsomniac wrote: post #23

A couple weeks ago we put a advert out on Indeed and also listed it here on HN. Initially we didn't have any further qualifications beyond the job post, which did indeed go into details on the job and requesting a cover letter. After spending a couple days of 2-3 hours each on reviewing resumes that were "only ok", we started adding additional hoops for getting resumes in, and also tried to put in a gatekeeper to rea…

> But, yeah, we're having a hard time finding full-stack people that can hit the ground running with Java and Vue

Why not get people who’ve worked with Java and other frontend frameworks, or Vue and other object oriented languages? In my first coding role I knew absolutely no C#, just some JS but I was contributing to the codebase within a week. Most of the particulars of your codebase will be particular to your codebase. Find people who’ve shown they can learn and give them a few weeks rather than take months to hire a person who has last worked with your particular stack.

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#140

Post by e12e »

catlover76 wrote: post #128
e12e wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should they spend the time to write you a detailed cover letter I'm not sure if I understand - there are candidates that want the position, but won't write a couple of (relevant) paragraphs? Surely then they don't have time to interview, negotiate compensation either?

> I'm not sure if I understand - there are candidates that want the position, but won't write a couple of (relevant) paragraphs? If it's just an open-ended "cover letter"? Then yes. > Surely then they don't have time to interview, negotiate compensation either? They have time for substantive stuff, not nonsense. It sounds like you want to filter only for candidates who may or may not be particularly competent, but wh…

I think we're at least partially talking past each other (quite probably we also disagree). Let's revisit:

> The programmers a company wants to hire have options that don't require a cover letter.

Ok. That sounds like they expect to be recuited - not needing to apply for a job?

Is there a small group of candidates that will read a job ad, be qualified, want the job enough to apply - but only willing to customize the email address they send their resume to?

Or are we talking about completely separate candidate pools here? Ones that read and respond to ads, and those that expect to be recruited?

> If it's just an open-ended "cover letter"? Then yes.

> They have time for substantive stuff, not nonsense

But it's not nonsense? It's a job application?

Or does "cover letter" strongly imply "fawning, vapid, nonsense" to you?

What is the alternative? Having the first interview as first contact certainly seems like a waste of time?

(Not to mention writing skills being essential for remote work - which I hope is an option for most software positions these days)

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