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Being Poor vs. Feeling Poor

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Re: Being Poor vs. Feeling Poor

#52
> Our apartment was small, my mom prepared food for a tiny catering company, and my dad was abroad trying to get his small business off the ground. By all financial measures, we were poor.

A family with dual income that can afford for one member to live abroad while starting their small business isn't what most people would call poor. At best they were lower middle class en route to upper middle class.

Fuck "feeling poor". This is what poverty is like.

Poverty is going to work every day knowing that you are getting further behind not ahead and still sticking it out and busting your ass because if you lose your job your life is going to crater. Poverty is losing the home you bought because even though their is a government loan to catch you up you can't afford a lawyer to fight them to make them give you a pile of essentially free money to get your loan straight. Poverty is keeping your family together anyway and moving across the country to stay with family members.

Poverty is having your car break down and instead of going to the mechanic walking home 6 miles at 1AM for months. Poverty is starting that walk at 2AM because you spent an hour drinking coffee in the break room working up the motivation to walk after spending 8-10 hours doing physical labor. Poverty is borrowing a shopping cart from the grocery store a mile away so you can take your groceries home and letting your kid ride in it both laughing as you cruise through puddles in the rain then walking your purloined cart all the way back.

Poverty is getting harassed by the cops solely because you are out late at night and stopped for the 3rd time until you start thinking like a criminal and planning routes around them as if trying to get home was a crime. Poverty is getting arrested for using a bad world while walking away and not being able to afford a lawyer and having to write your own appeal.

Poverty is renting a cabin in the woods barely 200sq ft for 4 people with no running water and enjoying the scenery instead of bitching about whose turn it is to bring a bucket of water in.

Poverty is going on a fishing with your father after you came back home still waiting for the free asthma medication from the manufacturers patient assistance program to come through and laughing at his description of his clip on sunglasses as the "dorkmaster 2000s" instead of thinking about the fact that without medication you can't walk up a hill without feeling like you are going to asphyxiate and dreaming you are suffocating because you in fact are. Poverty is not asking for the money to cover them out of pocket because it costs $400 and nobody has that.

Poverty is living in a moldy apartment building with druggies because its cheap. Poverty is waiting years for your building to fix the mold issue in the walls that is leaking into the apartment because the building claims its not "that kind of mold" because the contractor call smell the bad kind of black mold until you actually get a sample so you can have it tested by a lab to prove it is in fact the kind of black mold that makes you sick.

Poverty is living in a building which a local drug dealer or some other unknown malefactor has tried to burn down twice in a row and instead of moving organizing patrols of the hallways at night to sweep for scumbags and helping set up a buddy system to get the disabled folks out if the alarm goes off and ultimately dealing physically with the probable culprit in the courtyard when he attacked a neighbor. Poverty is the cops accusing YOU of a crime for defending your neighbor.

Attitude is important. How you tell yourself your own personal narrative is important. Positively is important. But life doesn't give two shits if you "feel" poor. Poverty leads to factual privation and struggle and for a lot of folks its not a transitory heroes journey where our protagonist must pay his dues. Instead its a trap that many folks spend their entire life fighting and never quite leaving.

For myself I'm still fighting the tar and have no intention on being interred here but I also have no illusion that its a matter of not "feeling poor" It's a cold question of resources and effort not an emotional one.

Re: Being Poor vs. Feeling Poor

#53
post #48
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can barely afford all the things you need, but none of the things you want, then that sounds like the definition of poor to me. Not being able to afford basic needs needs a stronger term like ‘starving’.

The term is poverty. Which poor definitely encompasses! As always, 'need' and 'want' are somewhat up for debate. Is medical care a need, or a want? For most of the world (by numbers), it's a want. Is dental care a need, or a want? For most of the world (by numbers), it's a want. Is a roof over your head that you own (or have control over anyway) a need or a want? For most of the world (by numbers), it's a want. Is ph…

If you were living in the Netherlands anywhere in the past 50-60 years, none of the things you’ve described would be ‘wants’, they would all be described as needs. And needs provided for by the state regardless of income at that (housing is a bit iffy at the moment).

Given that regardless of how much money you have you’d have access to all of those, how would you define poor?

What the OP describes is what my definition of poor was while growing up. There were simply no people around that had less than we had.

Of course by comparison with any country in Africa we were all filthy rich, but that’s not really a useful comparison to make. In the context we were living we were poor.

Re: Being Poor vs. Feeling Poor

#54
I never even knew I was poor when I was a kid. I didn't have a bathroom in the house, just a toilet outside and a tin bath to wash in outside too. It didn't even register that other people had bathrooms. I had everything I needed. I had some computer books (no computer) and a pile of Lego, and I was GOOD.

I've been a millionaire twice.

Now I'm even poorer. I get all my food from the food pantries, and I own literally nothing. I've been reduced to zero. But I'm not unhappy! Someone was kind enough to put a roof over my head and I have an Internet connection and an IDE and I can crank out code all day until one day when I return to middle-class and can buy some decent coffee again.

Re: Being Poor vs. Feeling Poor

#55
post #53
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term is poverty. Which poor definitely encompasses! As always, 'need' and 'want' are somewhat up for debate. Is medical care a need, or a want? For most of the world (by numbers), it's a want. Is dental care a need, or a want? For most of the world (by numbers), it's a want. Is a roof over your head that you own (or have control over anyway) a need or a want? For most of the world (by numbers), it's a want. Is ph…

If you were living in the Netherlands anywhere in the past 50-60 years, none of the things you’ve described would be ‘wants’, they would all be described as needs. And needs provided for by the state regardless of income at that (housing is a bit iffy at the moment). Given that regardless of how much money you have you’d have access to all of those, how would you define poor? What the OP describes is what my definiti…

From your description, you literally weren't poor even by the context of the netherlands, at least using the dictionary definition of the word.

[https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/poor]

You might have been at the lowest income level, but society ensured you met no reasonable definitions of the word, correct?

You had what you needed, even by the high standards of the society you were in.

That is a good thing.

Very few societies (now or historically) are able to do that, let alone willing.

So I'd just say you were doing ok. Or comfortable.

Just because you didn't have anyone handy at any given moment to point at and say 'hey look, they have even less than we do!' doesn't mean you were poor. It just means you were less rich. There is a difference.

Re: Being Poor vs. Feeling Poor

#56
post #2

>”By all financial measures, we were poor.” >”But here’s the thing: I never felt poor.” >”I had everything I needed and wanted. I had all the resources I required to do well at school too, so I never felt underprivileged there either.” This is written by someone who doesn’t understand that they were not poor. Poor is only eating 3/7 days a week. Poor is not owning pyjama’s, underwear or socks. Poor is not having scho…

And until I was homeless I didn't even know what being homeless was like.

For instance -- people say "there are millions of shelters! why are people living in tents?!" -- and I wondered the same thing. But then you go to a shelter and honestly, it is horrible for most people in shelters. Not only are you absolutely surrounded by people who (sadly) suffer from a slew of addictions and mental illness and want to steal from you, or fight you, or drag you into their endless drama, but the rules and regulations at shelters are so onerous that it makes prison seem like a holiday camp.

I now understand why people set up in a tent. They can support themselves, and be by themselves, and that agency is not to be under-rated.

Re: Being Poor vs. Feeling Poor

#57

I have a warm, dry nice place to live. I have food & security but I don't have the newest fad car or newest fad fashion. SO WHAT, I'm sure i'll get over it lol. I keep up with nobody but myself thanks.

Amen. I have a cold, dry place to live. But someone was kind enough to buy me a sleeping bag yesterday, so now I am warm. I have enough food to feed myself and not go hungry, which is a big improvement from being in jail lol.

Re: Being Poor vs. Feeling Poor

#58
post #55
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were living in the Netherlands anywhere in the past 50-60 years, none of the things you’ve described would be ‘wants’, they would all be described as needs. And needs provided for by the state regardless of income at that (housing is a bit iffy at the moment). Given that regardless of how much money you have you’d have access to all of those, how would you define poor? What the OP describes is what my definiti…

From your description, you literally weren't poor even by the context of the netherlands, at least using the dictionary definition of the word. [ https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/poor ] You might have been at the lowest income level, but society ensured you met no reasonable definitions of the word, correct? You had what you needed, even by the high standards of the society you were in. That is a good thing…

By that definition nobody is poor, which makes the word kind of useless, which means the definition changes. Which is definitely not how people think of themselves (as OP so helpfully told us).

I was wondering if this is just a case of a different definition for the word poor, and I find that the equivalent word in Dutch (arm) is defined as: “Not having a lot of something, especially money.” Which was definitely the case.

Whereas in English it’s: “of insufficient quantity to meet a need”, which was not.

There’s a different Dutch word (armoede) that indicates much more far reaching poverty, which has an almost equivalent definition to the English ‘poor’: “situation in which one does not have enough to live”

Poverty in English is: “the state of having little or no money and few or no material possessions” which seems more equivalent to poor.

Re: Being Poor vs. Feeling Poor

#59

> Our apartment was small, my mom prepared food for a tiny catering company, and my dad was abroad trying to get his small business off the ground. By all financial measures, we were poor. A family with dual income that can afford for one member to live abroad while starting their small business isn't what most people would call poor. At best they were lower middle class en route to upper middle class. Fuck "feeling…

I feel everything you said here.

hug

Re: Being Poor vs. Feeling Poor

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Jeff Bezos parents gave him a loan of $245,573, in 1993 money to start Amazon. This indicates that he grew up if not very wealthy, but solidly on the upper side of middle class. Growing up poor he would've probably not had the opportunities to get into Princeton (statistically), so probably would have had a harder time breaking in the hedge fund industry, giving him less cash on hand, and probably wouldn't have…

He might have not founded Amazon if he was poor, but that's not a question anyone was asking. The overwhelming majority of people, if they were given $245,573 in 1993, would not go on to build a trillion-dollar company. What Bezos accomplished was extraordinary, whatever way you look at it.

Yes, but he had safety nets upon safety nets to take risks. Of course, the more likely outcome is that he would have been ok but not a billionaire, but he had the luxury of aiming high because he would still be ok if he failed.
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