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Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

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Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#81

Post by catlover76 »

linsomniac wrote: post #23

A couple weeks ago we put a advert out on Indeed and also listed it here on HN. Initially we didn't have any further qualifications beyond the job post, which did indeed go into details on the job and requesting a cover letter. After spending a couple days of 2-3 hours each on reviewing resumes that were "only ok", we started adding additional hoops for getting resumes in, and also tried to put in a gatekeeper to rea…

> we started adding additional hoops for getting resumes in, and also tried to put in a gatekeeper to really urge applicants to write cover letters.

Doing this is a good way to get people good enough to have options to avoid applying to your job posting.

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#82

Post by isbvhodnvemrwvn »

MattGaiser wrote: post #5

It wouldn’t surprise me if this is a question of credentials. I don’t know any experienced people with solid skills who also have degrees who have been having difficulty. I know one good one, but without a relevant degree who is struggling. I also know lots of boot camp/recent grads in iffy masters programs who aren’t getting anywhere. I am aware of a few hiring processes that are just inundated with people who don’t…

The vast majority of candidates we reject have a degree.

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#83

Post by filoleg »

JTBooth wrote: post #51
andrewstuart wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This need for a cover letter is essentially asking candidates to tell you how much they love the company and how much they want the job. Why is this important beyond making the company feel loved? As a job applicant I’m not going to invest a minute in your company until you’ve read my resume and expressed an interest. Theres hundreds of companies out there employing who want your time but give nothing back. I know ne…

Cover letters that just say how much you love the company are pretty useless. Cover letters that provide additional information about why you're a good use of the company's interviewer's time are useful. I've submitted letters about, say, how I think one project on my resume is specifically applicable to a problem the company has. This both shows I researched the company, which is proof of investment from me, and pro…

Exactly. Competent recruiters and hiring managers at companies that I actually considered working for even explicitly told me to not waste my time on the cover letter (which was optional for their applications), unless I am a PhD with a long list of publications and specialized experience that would be too much to explain on my resume (or any other non-traditional type of an applicant that cannot easily relay their relevant expertise on the resume, e.g., former air traffic controller who is trying to break into software dev; or maybe if you have tons of experience in their very specific obscure niche).

For all other scenarios, cover letters seem pointless and redundant at best, and “i wanna see how much you are willing to suck up to the company” at worst.

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#84

Post by soupfordummies »

arcatech wrote: post #80
linsomniac wrote: post #23

A couple weeks ago we put a advert out on Indeed and also listed it here on HN. Initially we didn't have any further qualifications beyond the job post, which did indeed go into details on the job and requesting a cover letter. After spending a couple days of 2-3 hours each on reviewing resumes that were "only ok", we started adding additional hoops for getting resumes in, and also tried to put in a gatekeeper to rea…

> I've been very lucky, I've not had to apply for many jobs. But when I have, I always wrote a specific cover letter AND customized my resume to the job advert. You're self selecting for people who happen to be as privileged as you are. Maybe that's what you want, but I'm not surprised it's been more difficult than you were expecting.

This speaks to OPs mention of "brokenness on both sides" where being able to write a cover letter and tailoring the resume to the job is considered "privileged"

Please note, I'm not disputing your comment at all. It's just that what used to be considered the norm (cover letter, etc) is just way too time-intensive by the wayside as applicants now have to mostly optimize for quantity of apps submitted.

If you don't NEED a new job ASAP then, yeah, you can do that, but for someone who's been laid off or unemployed for longer stretches, it's really just a numbers game most of the time.

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#85

Post by filoleg »

1123581321 wrote: post #77
andrewstuart wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This need for a cover letter is essentially asking candidates to tell you how much they love the company and how much they want the job. Why is this important beyond making the company feel loved? As a job applicant I’m not going to invest a minute in your company until you’ve read my resume and expressed an interest. Theres hundreds of companies out there employing who want your time but give nothing back. I know ne…

A cover letter is a place to put relevant information about you that doesn’t go on a resume. If you received a notice that your resume had been read, they liked it, and they wanted a cover letter before an interview, would you submit one?

> If you received a notice that your resume had been read, they liked it, and they wanted a cover letter before an interview, would you submit one?

No, because that would mean they didn’t specify that the cover letter would be required ahead of time, and I am not trying to waste my time.

How am I so certain that they didn’t specify it ahead of time? Because I wouldn’t apply in the first place if a cover letter was listed as a requirement on the initial application.

If I am feeling particularly petty or upset about that surprise ask for a cover letter later in the process, I will just ask ChatGPT to write the most generic and useless cover letter for me, and then send it over.

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#86

Post by [deleted] »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #64
throwaway38475 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Degrees are as useless a metric as bootcamps in my experience. I've done so many interviews in which a 4.0 CS grad can't sort a list that a degree from even 'elite' institutions doesn't mean much.

Does the job you're hiring for actually require sorting a list? If Kroger wants to hire a new CEO, they're unlikely to require candidates to walk up to the cash register and ring up customers even if it's a very basic skill for the industry.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#87

Post by 1123581321 »

filoleg wrote: post #85
1123581321 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cover letter is a place to put relevant information about you that doesn’t go on a resume. If you received a notice that your resume had been read, they liked it, and they wanted a cover letter before an interview, would you submit one?

> If you received a notice that your resume had been read, they liked it, and they wanted a cover letter before an interview, would you submit one? No, because that would mean they didn’t specify that the cover letter would be required ahead of time, and I am not trying to waste my time. How am I so certain that they didn’t specify it ahead of time? Because I wouldn’t apply in the first place if a cover letter was li…

You’re a different person. The other guy said he wouldn’t write one if they hadn’t liked his resume already.

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#88

Post by catlover76 »

e12e wrote: post #61
bilsbie wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My boomer grandfather called and wants his cover letter back. Jk but why not ask for a five minute coding challenge instead of a cover letter. Eg decode this string and include it in the subject line.

In many jobs, if you can't tailor your CV to the job, and can't write half a page rationale - you probably can't collect, evaluate and summarize business and technical requirements - ie: you can't do the tricky part of software engineering. Sure, being fluent at the level of fizz-buzz in a relevant programming language is useful too - but honestly, that bar is lower. I realize that people that can't code their way ou…

> In many jobs, if you can't tailor your CV to the job, and can't write half a page rationale - you probably can't collect, evaluate and summarize business and technical requirements - ie: you can't do the tricky part of software engineering.

It's not about can or cannot, it is about need and need not; you are by and large getting applications only from people who really need to apply to jobs even when there are these kinds of hurdles.

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#89

Post by replwoacause »

linsomniac wrote: post #23

A couple weeks ago we put a advert out on Indeed and also listed it here on HN. Initially we didn't have any further qualifications beyond the job post, which did indeed go into details on the job and requesting a cover letter. After spending a couple days of 2-3 hours each on reviewing resumes that were "only ok", we started adding additional hoops for getting resumes in, and also tried to put in a gatekeeper to rea…

I’d never write a cover letter to get a job somewhere. It seems like such an antiquated holdover practice to me. In fact, if it were required I’d actively avoid it, which sounds like the effect you were going for. Especially now that I work for one of the biggest and most sought after companies in my country and they didn’t get two craps about a cover letter.

Re: Ask HN: For those trying to hire how hard is it to find people currently?

#90

Post by throwaway5959 »

vlod wrote: post #20

For freelancers, I am occasionally seeing extremely low hourly rates (linkedin), targeted at (I assume) Latin America. i.e. $15-$20 is the lowest, but sometimes $35ph. (Pretty shocking, but if it works out for everyone, good luck to them). I know companies that are only hiring from that region, where previously they were hiring Americans. Generally, I'm seeing hourly rates 40%-60% lower than a year ago (for senior ro…

Work from home advocates clearly didn’t think through the fact that there are extremely talented devs in LatAm in the same time zone as them that can live like royalty on half their salary.
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