Its just me that thinks there is something really wrong with the way politicians try to pass such controversial laws? Politicians bring up something controversial. Most of the time influenced by some lobby with very little interest in public benefit. To combat this lots of people need to do activism. Those people need to devote your time and energy to prevent such thing. So far it sounds good but after the dust settl…
Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance
181–190 of 386 posts
Re: Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance
#182How are there not riots in the EU right now?
Because the EU doesn't really have much actual power to do anything that impacts normal citizens. Like the EU doesn't start criminal prosecutions or anything against people. If there is some crime you're being prosecuted for it's going to be your country's government that prosecutes you. No one is really worried about the EU becoming some sort of Orwellian state because it isn't a state, it doesn't operate like that.…
Re: Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance
#183The European parlement is probably the best thing that we have in Europe, most good things and new rights come from there. At the opposite, the European Commission is probably the worse that we can have. It is totally corrupted (see the vice president with bags of cash given by the Qatar and co) or at least morally corrupted by lobbies. And no one elected this persons with so much power by the way. Good things to won…
Yeah, she was also behind the infanous cyber resilience act!
Re: Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance
#184I would be interested in learning the thoughts of those who have thought deeply about the role of anonymity in democracy. I am intrigued how often people with the attitude that if you aren't don't anything wrong you shouldn't mind being observed apply that philosophy in only one direction. I see people who are upset that Snowden would leak and provide visibility into government actions, but don't blink that the revea…
I am strongly in the pro individual privacy camp FWIW, but I'm bored so I'll take a stab at steel-manning the premise that governments are entitled to privacy while individual people are not:
One of the obligations of governments is military defense. Governments are required to protect their people and the reality of war necessitates the keeping of some secrets. Failure to recognize this reality would constitute an abdication of their duty as a government. On the other hand, private persons are not permitted to wage war (this is why governments are obliged to defend their people, because they forbid people from doing it themselves.) Since people are not allowed to wage war on their own, the "realities of war" justification for governments keeping secrets doesn't justify people keeping personal secrets.
Rebuttal to the above: throughout history and particularly in the 20th century, tens of millions of people were killed by their own government. While governments may need to keep some secrets to effectively defend their population against external threats, people also need the right to keep secrets from their government to defend themselves against that domestic threat, which is every bit as real and concerning as the external threats.
Re: Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance
#185Its just me that thinks there is something really wrong with the way politicians try to pass such controversial laws? Politicians bring up something controversial. Most of the time influenced by some lobby with very little interest in public benefit. To combat this lots of people need to do activism. Those people need to devote your time and energy to prevent such thing. So far it sounds good but after the dust settl…
I wonder what would happen if there were not politicians, if the parliament of Europe were the sum of all its citizens voting for laws in some sort of mega-stack-overflow consensus system. A part of me wants to believe this madness would end. Another part fears that we would try, at least for a few months, total surveillance and bisections as a form of capital punishment. But on the bright side, we would be able to c…
This happens a lot in the US in the primary elections. Everyone complains about the poor quality of Republican candidates and how they wish there were better options but the primary voter has already limited the field.
Re: Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance
#186Re: Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
Idk... The EC pushes through controversial decisions, that are not controversial between states... the bar is generally something high in this regard. National Governments get a buffer between them and discontented citizens, because "it's the EU." There is also a lot of pressure to conform to EC "consensus," parties/individuals that want to be seen as government material. EC totally discounts digital privacy especial…
> recreational politics This. Fringe parties tend to do much better in EP elections than in national elections.
Re: Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance
#188The European parlement is probably the best thing that we have in Europe, most good things and new rights come from there. At the opposite, the European Commission is probably the worse that we can have. It is totally corrupted (see the vice president with bags of cash given by the Qatar and co) or at least morally corrupted by lobbies. And no one elected this persons with so much power by the way. Good things to won…
That sort of undermines your argument.
Re: Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance
#189Re: Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
What alternative do you propose? The politicians are elected representatives of and by the people.
What about every service owned by the government becomes private and offered by private companies and we remove the goverment completely? I'd kill to see The Machinery of Freedom by D. Friedman in real life