"Linux switch saved city millions and reduced user complaints" • Hacker News Board

Re: "Linux switch saved city millions and reduced user complaints"

#31

Post by doktrin » Mon, Apr 02, 2012, 2:01 PM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #23

With these kinds of `hooray linux´ articles, I always wonder whether they included the cost of reduced productivity they included when moving everybody from MS Office to LibreOffice and stuff like that. The difference in quality, stability and features is pretty big. I've worked with LibreOffice only for about 8 months, and I can tell you, it's not just a matter of "getting used to". There's simply a whole bunch of b…

I agree. The FOSS office tools are simply not in the same class as Microsoft Office. Anyone who has worked extensively with Excel will acknowledge there really is no true competitor out there.

Frankly, I would go so far as to say that a Linux desktop OS is really only appropriate for enthusiasts or those with minimal needs (e.g. email). For just about anyone else, there is simply too much potential hassle involved in getting the basics to work (external displays, anyone?).

Re: "Linux switch saved city millions and reduced user complaints"

#32

Post by Uchikoma » Mon, Apr 02, 2012, 2:02 PM UTC

mjwalshe wrote: post #24

rbanffy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For my wife, I advised a move to Mac. She needed perfect MS Office compatibility for professional reasons and the computers are much prettier.

And much more expensive :-) and if you want 100% Office comapatability for work by a PC.

Could you show how a DELL or HP is much cheaper?

I did a calculation in 2006, comparing a Lenovo T60p to a MacBook Pro, it was roughly the same. Things did not change since then to my knowledge.

http://codemonkeyism.com/the-recent-lenovo-vs-apple-discussi...

Re: "Linux switch saved city millions and reduced user complaints"

#33

Post by kaolinite » Mon, Apr 02, 2012, 2:03 PM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #23

With these kinds of `hooray linux´ articles, I always wonder whether they included the cost of reduced productivity they included when moving everybody from MS Office to LibreOffice and stuff like that. The difference in quality, stability and features is pretty big. I've worked with LibreOffice only for about 8 months, and I can tell you, it's not just a matter of "getting used to". There's simply a whole bunch of b…

Personally I find that techies are the hardest to rip away from Office, as they can see all the little bugs, etc. Non-technical people seem to - somehow - overlook these.

I've introduced a number of people now to OpenOffice and they've much preferred it as it has given them back a somewhat familiar interface, after the widely-despised change to ribbon (a UI I actually prefer but it was a shock to many).

Re: "Linux switch saved city millions and reduced user complaints"

#34

Post by kiloaper » Mon, Apr 02, 2012, 2:05 PM UTC

vibrunazo wrote: post #4

On a parallel anecdote. Installing Ubuntu on my parents PC sure did reduce the amount of assistance they needed from me with crashes and malware. I'd recommend it to anyone who needs to spend some time helping non-tech friends with computer problems :)

This mirrors my experience. I was really surprised with my parents reaction to Ubuntu. They found Unity easier to understand than Windows. It has opened up a whole new world to them. Before they barely touched the PC, now they email relatives on a regular basis and have switched over the using government and banking services online. As an added bonus I now rarely get calls for unpaid tech support.

Re: "Linux switch saved city millions and reduced user complaints"

#35

Post by tbsdy » Mon, Apr 02, 2012, 2:08 PM UTC

I love Linux myself, and I have no doubt that they've saved money, but the following makes me a little concerned about how they are going about Service Management:

"Ude said it was impossible to be exact about the amount of complaints the help desk gets about LiMux, noting that most problems are a combination of several causes. The software is not always the problem, since often there are problems reaching a server, or Internet connections might be malfunctioning."

My concern here is that they aren't logging incidents via some sort of appropriate iTSM framework (MOF, ITILv3, etc.) Even the most basic Incident Management setups would allow them to perform basic analysis of the incident data to work out where there issues are coming from.

I'm afraid I just don't buy the argument that it's impossible to know for certain where the city's problems are coming from :(

Re: "Linux switch saved city millions and reduced user complaints"

#36

Post by viandante » Mon, Apr 02, 2012, 2:10 PM UTC

doktrin wrote: post #31

skrebbel wrote: post #23

With these kinds of `hooray linux´ articles, I always wonder whether they included the cost of reduced productivity they included when moving everybody from MS Office to LibreOffice and stuff like that. The difference in quality, stability and features is pretty big. I've worked with LibreOffice only for about 8 months, and I can tell you, it's not just a matter of "getting used to". There's simply a whole bunch of b…

I agree. The FOSS office tools are simply not in the same class as Microsoft Office. Anyone who has worked extensively with Excel will acknowledge there really is no true competitor out there. Frankly, I would go so far as to say that a Linux desktop OS is really only appropriate for enthusiasts or those with minimal needs (e.g. email). For just about anyone else, there is simply too much potential hassle involved in…

Frankly, I would say just the opposite. If your needs are minimal, go with windows. If you need more, linux is a good choice. You will never get a decent terminal in windows or good support for some programming languages (such as python).

You are right with Excel although. However, much of the "power" of Excel is really just needed because people are overusing it. Stop making "databases" out of Excel sheets and implement good data analytics system on the server and you'll see that libreoffice is more than enough.

Re: "Linux switch saved city millions and reduced user complaints"

#37

Post by eru » Mon, Apr 02, 2012, 2:10 PM UTC

keithpeter wrote: post #18

Disclaimer: I'm not a programmer and have been a bystander in medium sized IT projects. Does anyone think that large organisations will tend to move to Web-browser based business applications over the next few years? If so, will that make it easier to switch the client device without major change in the central plumbing?

My employer thinks that lots of people will switch to using remote `cloud-based' applications. Including web-browser based, but also using custom-clients. But then, they are in the business of selling those remote app software.

Re: "Linux switch saved city millions and reduced user complaints"

#38

Post by bdunbar » Mon, Apr 02, 2012, 2:13 PM UTC

"... and reduced user complaints"

When I hear that metric I think of a homegrown app that was supposed to upload files from PeeCees to the company's mainframe. At the annual IT meeting ...

"And since implementing change foo and bar in the system user complaints to the special helpdesk have declined 90% .."

My boss stood up [1] "That's because the users got tired of calling and not having anything fixed. It's still broken."

The manager/presenter shot daggers at Eric [1]. Cross-hall verbal sniping started. Entertaining.

[1] He was retiring in a few months.

Re: "Linux switch saved city millions and reduced user complaints"

#39

Post by keithpeter » Mon, Apr 02, 2012, 2:16 PM UTC

Argorak wrote: post #19

keithpeter wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should be fun when they upgrade to 12.04. And I say that as one who quite likes Unity

Its not a standard Ubuntu. For example, they use KDE 3 :).

Well, they'll have to change that for 12.04 unless they compile their own!

Re: "Linux switch saved city millions and reduced user complaints"

#40

Post by mbell » Mon, Apr 02, 2012, 2:17 PM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #23

With these kinds of `hooray linux´ articles, I always wonder whether they included the cost of reduced productivity they included when moving everybody from MS Office to LibreOffice and stuff like that. The difference in quality, stability and features is pretty big. I've worked with LibreOffice only for about 8 months, and I can tell you, it's not just a matter of "getting used to". There's simply a whole bunch of b…

The layout issue is really an intrinsic problem with almost any word processor. Primarily because such programs are not made for page layout work. I've had just as many issues with transferring word files between various platforms ( win mac). If you want your layout to be accurate, only transfer files in PDF with the fonts embedded or just create them in indesign or some other application that is actually designed for layout work.