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Scrollbars are becoming a problem

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Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#811

Post by arcanemachiner »

happymellon wrote: post #741
JohnFen wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do need window borders. A good interface would allow enough configuration that we both could have what we want.

Agreed. I don't "agree to disagree", they offer a function that's unusable. It would be the equivalent of MacOS breaking the ability to double click on an app. But it's okay because you could use Spotlight. That's great and all, but if everything else allows double clicking and MacOS allowed double clicking but only on the absolute centre pixel, we would all consider it broken.

For me it's more like being disappointed that there's no way to start the engine in my car with a hand crank, instead of using the key.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#812

Post by E39M5S62 »

wilg wrote: post #711
iainmerrick wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On macOS at least, it's not one change, it's at least four: - scrollbars overlaying the content, rather than having dedicated space - scrollbars that auto-hide when not in use - scrollbars that are initially narrow, then widen when you mouse-over - removal of the scroll buttons That's not including the visual design changes, which are arguably important too (e.g. the scroll "thumb" now has a very flat design rather t…

That's all one change, because they redesigned it once! You can't just pick apart all the elements of the design to claim its multiple changes. I agree the proportional scrollbar was good.

What? Of course you can. Multiple things were changed. That they were all lumped together in one update is meaningless.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#813

Post by david422 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #729
david422 wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh come on. Why even have a title bar at that point. Why not just stick a little tab on the side and get rid of the title bar entirely.

Is "Yes, good idea." the response you're expecting? Because that's my response. But title bars are mandatory, so that's why not.

> But title bars are mandatory, so that's why not.

What does that even mean? That's the whole point of the discussion - standard UI elements have been bastardized so much, might as well just keep the trend going.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#814

Post by pseudalopex »

dredmorbius wrote: post #808
pseudalopex wrote: post #797

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt Apple began removing color years ago for a display technology they never used.

That wasn't my argument ... ... though Apple has had monochrome devices (the original Mac, the handheld Newton) ... ... and often makes preparations years on advance for long-term strategic moves. I'm putting very low emphasis on that last, as e-ink really doesn't seem to fit particularly well with the Apple ethos, except, perhaps, for watches. But if Apple were planning, or even contemplating, an e-ink device, order…

What was your argument? Apple's historic monochrome devices are irrelevant. And Apple used color on color displays in those times.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#815

Post by nsonha »

> The Best

I can imagine minimaps being useful on graphical content but the author gave the example of it being used dogmatically and unhelpful: code editor. There is nothing to see in "the shape of the code"?

The minimap could (and I usually set this the first thing in vscode) be replaced with actual useful markers like svc changes

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#816

Post by JohnFen »

bluGill wrote: post #710
JohnFen wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Distros SHOULD be theming all applications. Once thing a distro can do well is create a theme for their distro so everything looks the same. I would reject a distro that did this (unless I could disable it). But users should be able to make everything look the way that works the best for them.

Wait, we haven't even seen this theme or how well it is done and you already reject it?

Yes, because there is no way such a thing could be done that would be great for everyone. Different people have different needs.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#817

Post by dredmorbius »

pseudalopex wrote: post #814
dredmorbius wrote: post #808

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wasn't my argument ... ... though Apple has had monochrome devices (the original Mac, the handheld Newton) ... ... and often makes preparations years on advance for long-term strategic moves. I'm putting very low emphasis on that last, as e-ink really doesn't seem to fit particularly well with the Apple ethos, except, perhaps, for watches. But if Apple were planning, or even contemplating, an e-ink device, order…

What was your argument? Apple's historic monochrome devices are irrelevant. And Apple used color on color displays in those times.

My argument here (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37869476>) is that across all OSes, and for the Web generally, being mindful of monochrome, low-refresh-rate displays is something that should be front-of-mind for UI/UX teams and design.

Many of these issues already exist, e.g., for documents which are likely to be printed on monochrome devices. Colour is useful where available, but it is not universally available.

(And that's before addressing issues such as colourblindness or other disability / accessibility considerations.)

My original comment was not at all specific to Apple (you'd introduced them to the discussion), other vendors, or any specific OS or application. Simply that monochrome and e-ink are increasingly concerns.

But since you raised the topic of Apple, and since, contrary to your initial statement that, broadly speaking, monochrome was "a display technology they never used", I'm both correcting the record, and noting that should there be a monochrome or e-ink prospect on Apple's roadmap, and further noting that Apple rather famously does not announce such roadmaps in advance, that flat/white would in fact fit with e-ink remarkably well.

What that has to say about whether or not Apple is contemplating any such move I am, of course, entirely ignorant.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#818

Post by chefandy »

deprecative wrote: post #800
chefandy wrote: post #754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vollying back your flipness-- This sort of reductive assumption about software design is why companies that need people who aren't developers to actually use their products hire interface designers.

Most employers I've had are all about getting engineers to be everything. Designers, infrastructure, QA, UI/UX, and even product/project managers.. everything.

Sounds like you need new employers. The only people who want that are shortsighted managers who don't care that they know nothing about users' needs, and that's certainly not a universal disposition in the software business.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#819

Post by willi59549879 »

chankstein38 wrote: post #558
codalan wrote: post #135

It's not just scrollbars. It's the elimination of window borders. Aside from not being able to differentiate one window from another similarly colored window in the background, it's nearly impossible to click and hold on anything along the edge to resize the window. It's the overloading of the title bar with so much shit like search boxes and extraneous buttons that a user has almost no place to grip to move the wind…

This is common on sites like YouTube as well. Try to scroll through your front page without your mouse accidentally hitting random videos and causing them to auto play. It drives me insane. The best spot for the mouse that I've found is a small maybe 20px area between the menu bar and the leftmost video. Other than that, you're autoplaying something. I agree with everything you said as well. Huge complaints from me o…

The YouTube autoplay annoys me too. Would be nice if it could be turned off in the settings

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#820

Post by [deleted] »

mort96 wrote: post #513
dredmorbius wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also an increasing prevalence and popularity of e-ink displays. Though some of these are colour-capable, most are monochrome, and I've definitely had challenges negotiating apps and content which use colour as a key differentiator.

Is there actually an increasing prevalence and popularity of e-ink displays? I know there technically exists some "high refresh rate" e-ink screens these days (meaning you can get 10 FPS if you're comfortable with a whole lot of ghosting), but aren't e-ink screens still pretty much only used in dedicated e-book readers? Personally, I think it's just that monochrome icons are fashionable. I can't imagine that the GIMP…

[deleted]
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