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Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

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Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#311

Post by userbinator »

savingsPossible wrote: post #300
userbinator wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely insane to see the extremist anti-car faction here essentially trying to argue against the laws of physics. Humans can change velocity and look in all directions much easier than cars.

We are not arguing against the laws of physics We are arguing about the burden. Right now, the burden of preventing accidents is placed on pedestrians and kids. Everyone on foot needs to look carefully, and only step on the road when it is safe We could revert this burden. The cars need to drive in a way that, if a kid appears at a distance of X meters, they can fully stop without touching the kid. This would mean sl…

What "burden"? You might not even be alive today if it weren't for cars and all they've enabled.

You're basically saying we should make cars uselessly slow, because "think of the children!!!1"

It's trivial to look for cars when crossing the road. If you think otherwise, that's just your misguided ideology. Even animals know well enough to not put themselves in danger; and for the ones which don't, Darwin wins.

No. I've had enough of these insane ideological battles.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#312

Post by interestica »

pixl97 wrote: post #107
interestica wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as they backed up That's no longer a U-turn

When you start looking at the average size of an American 4 wheeled land yacht you'll understand why U-turns are illegal.

Are they illegal across the USA?

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#313

Post by Affric »

currymj wrote: post #235
Affric wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car-brain be strong. You gotta give it to the auto-makers. Probably the greatest propagandists of the modern world. The fact is that cars make places suck. They are dangerous to other road users, the roads built for them create dangerous microclimates, monopolise what was once shared infrastructure, and they enable evils such as the supermarket. Cars are like guns in the states but worse.

you lost me with the supermarket... lots of people in NYC walk or take the subway to supermarkets that have little/no parking... people like a big store where all the food is in one place.

Here supermarkets are associated with large car parks.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#314

Post by joshuahaglund »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #299
joshuahaglund wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe yours but not most people I know who use their bike frequently. Maintaining a bike is cheaper and easier than maintaining a car.

> Maintaining a bike is cheaper and easier than maintaining a car also debatable I changed the brake pads of my car two years ago, for 50 euros. They are still perfectly functional (according to my mechanic opinion). Admittedly I drive ~200kms a month, but nonetheless maintenance, at least for me, is really cheap.

Nonsense. How much do you think bike parts cost? Basic pads for a bike are about $10-15, depending on rim or disc brakes. With most rim brakes you only an allen key. Most cars need a tool to depress the piston, not to mention you have to lift the car and remove, remove lugs, etc. Compared to a disc bike, you can compress the caliper using only a tire lever, and most bikes have quick release hubs or worst case 2 nuts to remove per wheel.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#315

Post by joshuahaglund »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #282
joshuahaglund wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe yours but not most people I know who use their bike frequently. Maintaining a bike is cheaper and easier than maintaining a car.

maybe the average European bike, which is like this one [1], but much older. Maybe you shouldn't assume your friends represent a representative sample. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle#/media/File:Left_side_... > Maintaining a bike is cheaper and easier than maintaining a car. but very few do it, given that they are not forced to keep it functional, unlike here, where I live, where your car has to pass a sta…

If you're gonna complain about my data sources, can you tell me where you are getting yours?

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#316

Post by munk-a »

Affric wrote: post #313
currymj wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you lost me with the supermarket... lots of people in NYC walk or take the subway to supermarkets that have little/no parking... people like a big store where all the food is in one place.

Here supermarkets are associated with large car parks.

Up here in Vancouver we have a Costco that's in the middle of downtown and trivially subway accessible - it also has a parking structure and Costco in particular is a rather difficult shop to do on foot... but grocery stores with a wide variety are still useful to make trips on foot to if you only need niche ingredients and can pick up the bulk of your food at veggie markets and butchers.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#317

Post by savingsPossible »

userbinator wrote: post #311
savingsPossible wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are not arguing against the laws of physics We are arguing about the burden. Right now, the burden of preventing accidents is placed on pedestrians and kids. Everyone on foot needs to look carefully, and only step on the road when it is safe We could revert this burden. The cars need to drive in a way that, if a kid appears at a distance of X meters, they can fully stop without touching the kid. This would mean sl…

What "burden"? You might not even be alive today if it weren't for cars and all they've enabled. You're basically saying we should make cars uselessly slow, because "think of the children!!!1" It's trivial to look for cars when crossing the road. If you think otherwise, that's just your misguided ideology. Even animals know well enough to not put themselves in danger; and for the ones which don't, Darwin wins. No. I'…

I am interested. You seem to be espousing a belief (that I hope I don't get wrong): "driving above 20mph in a city environment gives significant economic benefits, and should not be curtailed".

In roads, between cities, the benefits are obvious (or at least, I agree with you that they are substantial). So I expressed the belief you seem to hold with an added hypothesis of 'city environment'.

Do you agree with the belief as I quoted? Was I fair?

If so, why do you think so? I just tried some different paths in my city (currently with very low traffic) in google maps. The greatest average speed I was able to find was 26 mph. The city seems to work fine and have good economic development.

I used >>> distance_in_km/((time_in_minutes)/60) * 0.62 (is this wrong? I don't think so)

Might be the case that I just lack intuition, but the advantages of much higher speeds inside the city limits do not seem obvious from an economic standpoint. I would indeed hesitate if I believe that this would have any significant economic cost. A small reduction in productivity can be very costly in human suffering.

As to 'my side', I am not saying only that I want to reduce accidents. I am saying that I want to reduce accidents while increasing the amount of time people can safely spend outdoors and while increasing the activities that they can do outdoors.

The idea that a significant part of our cities must be (or simply is) high speed road is a choice, and I think it merits discussion.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#318

Post by peoplefromibiza »

joshuahaglund wrote: post #314
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maintaining a bike is cheaper and easier than maintaining a car also debatable I changed the brake pads of my car two years ago, for 50 euros. They are still perfectly functional (according to my mechanic opinion). Admittedly I drive ~200kms a month, but nonetheless maintenance, at least for me, is really cheap.

Nonsense. How much do you think bike parts cost? Basic pads for a bike are about $10-15, depending on rim or disc brakes. With most rim brakes you only an allen key. Most cars need a tool to depress the piston, not to mention you have to lift the car and remove, remove lugs, etc. Compared to a disc bike, you can compress the caliper using only a tire lever, and most bikes have quick release hubs or worst case 2 nuts…

> Basic pads for a bike are about $10-15,

same for cars (retail price on Amazon for consumers, it's cheaper if you buy them as a professional).

https://www.amazon.it/BREMBO-23-160-Pastiglia-Freno/dp/B01LW...

> Most cars need a tool to depress the piston, not to mention you have to lift the car and remove

mechanics do it for 50 euros here.

And I can change my brake pads, everybody could do it, it's just that people are unaware of how easy it is.

They mostly are unaware of how easy it is to change brakes on a bike too, that's why bike shops make more money than car shops compared to the amount of work required.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#319

Post by sokoloff »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #318
joshuahaglund wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. How much do you think bike parts cost? Basic pads for a bike are about $10-15, depending on rim or disc brakes. With most rim brakes you only an allen key. Most cars need a tool to depress the piston, not to mention you have to lift the car and remove, remove lugs, etc. Compared to a disc bike, you can compress the caliper using only a tire lever, and most bikes have quick release hubs or worst case 2 nuts…

> Basic pads for a bike are about $10-15, same for cars (retail price on Amazon for consumers, it's cheaper if you buy them as a professional). https://www.amazon.it/BREMBO-23-160-Pastiglia-Freno/dp/B01LW... > Most cars need a tool to depress the piston, not to mention you have to lift the car and remove mechanics do it for 50 euros here. And I can change my brake pads, everybody could do it, it's just that people ar…

Plus one on the huge gulf between how easy the job actually is and how hard people think it is.

I’ve shown about 5 friends how to do it. I don’t think any have continued to DIY additional work, but I tried and at least they know a bit more about their car now.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#320

Post by peoplefromibiza »

joshuahaglund wrote: post #315
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

maybe the average European bike, which is like this one [1], but much older. Maybe you shouldn't assume your friends represent a representative sample. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle#/media/File:Left_side_... > Maintaining a bike is cheaper and easier than maintaining a car. but very few do it, given that they are not forced to keep it functional, unlike here, where I live, where your car has to pass a sta…

If you're gonna complain about my data sources, can you tell me where you are getting yours?

of course: this is the largest bike parking in the Netherlands (6,000 bikes) [1]

You can see by yourself the kind of the average bike and its maintenance state

notice: I deliberately chose the Netherlands because it's the country with the most bikes, the best infrastructures for bikes and with the best kept bikes, so Imagine that 90% of the bikes in Europe are in much worse shape that those you can see in the picture.

[1] https://www.planetizen.com/files/styles/featured_large/publi...

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