Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Scrollbars are becoming a problem

artemis.sh

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

581–590 of 944 posts

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#581

Post by xahrepap »

pjettter wrote: post #578
Pannoniae wrote: post #10

I have come to a funny realisation recently. It's not my eyesight which is becoming worse, it's the UIs which are becoming worse. The tiny scrollbars with laughable contrast are in no way accessible to anyone. I've recently switched to using KDE with the Oxygen theme and it's a joy to use without any eye strain. These scrollbars are absolutely pathetic, with no room for customisation. (good luck theming a locked-down…

I often wish we had more analog control in the digital world. I wish there were turn knobs instead up/down buttons with 10 steps (where it is easy to accidentally leave a menu... When trying to get back to where you were, you are suddenly adjusting something else entirely). Manual control with digital devices has become too digital and too cumbersome. It used to be easy to adjust contrast and brightness on a display,…

And when you finally have a along controls everything is overloaded.

Dish forced a new remote on us last time a device broke and they replaced it. It has far fewer buttons. I’m sure it helps getting familiar with it on a super basic level. But the old one wasn’t that complicated anyhow.

But here’s the kicker: there’s no fast forward or rewind buttons. There no stop button. No record button. All of these (and more) have been turned into menu items and/or secret chords on the remote.

Oh. And it has a mic on it too. Hard pass.

Tv remote is just the easy example. I see it all over the place. Sleek no longer is pretty to my eyes. If I see something that I have to interact with these days and it looks sleek, I see frustration.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#582

Post by Sakos »

chefandy wrote: post #511
Podgajski wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we are talking UI we need to talk about Apple. The first thin I do on MacOS is turn on the scroll bars. Yes, MacOS Has them set as "Only Show When Scrolling" by default, which is probably the most ridiculous setting.

It seems like most people who scroll use touch, wheel, or other non-scroll-bar interfaces, and the scroll bars are just a visual indicator of document size and position while navigating it. I know I do— and have for 20 years unless I was using a shitty laptop without a scrolling input method. Maybe unless I'm scrolling through literally millions of lines of text, which is infrequent enough that I'd prefer to have the…

> the designers at Apple who chose to hide those scroll bars probably thought more about scrolling more than every one of these commenters combined, and that was before they did formal usability studies.

This blind appeal to authority shouldn't convince anyone.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#583

Post by Sakos »

agloe_dreams wrote: post #571
Podgajski wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we are talking UI we need to talk about Apple. The first thin I do on MacOS is turn on the scroll bars. Yes, MacOS Has them set as "Only Show When Scrolling" by default, which is probably the most ridiculous setting.

I can, 100% say that I haven't used a scroll bar on the web in years. I do find the hidden scroll more aesthetically pleasing.

Yes, we should absolutely make everything less accessible in the name of aesthetics. That's made computer interfaces so much better in the past 20 years.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#584

Post by prmoustache »

Dalewyn wrote: post #480
prmoustache wrote: post #474

Imho scroolbars are unneeded on computers with properly made keyboards. People are desperate to use scrollbars only when the PgUp, PgDown, Home and End keys are not quick to reach. This is the real battle to fight for. Vote with your money and stop buying computers with stupid keyboards.

Scroll bars are a visual indication of how much content there is off screen/window and where I am in it. There are more uses to it than just dragging or clicking it with the mouse.

But you don't need a huge one for that.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#585

Post by CRConrad »

chefandy wrote: post #511
Podgajski wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we are talking UI we need to talk about Apple. The first thin I do on MacOS is turn on the scroll bars. Yes, MacOS Has them set as "Only Show When Scrolling" by default, which is probably the most ridiculous setting.

It seems like most people who scroll use touch, wheel, or other non-scroll-bar interfaces, and the scroll bars are just a visual indicator of document size and position while navigating it. I know I do— and have for 20 years unless I was using a shitty laptop without a scrolling input method. Maybe unless I'm scrolling through literally millions of lines of text, which is infrequent enough that I'd prefer to have the…

> Phone and tablet usage has outpaced regular computer usage for quite some time, and that informs users interaction style.

"Informs"?!? Deforms!

WTF does phone usage have to do with sabotaging the UI on a computer???

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#586

Post by breakfastduck »

pjettter wrote: post #578
Pannoniae wrote: post #10

I have come to a funny realisation recently. It's not my eyesight which is becoming worse, it's the UIs which are becoming worse. The tiny scrollbars with laughable contrast are in no way accessible to anyone. I've recently switched to using KDE with the Oxygen theme and it's a joy to use without any eye strain. These scrollbars are absolutely pathetic, with no room for customisation. (good luck theming a locked-down…

I often wish we had more analog control in the digital world. I wish there were turn knobs instead up/down buttons with 10 steps (where it is easy to accidentally leave a menu... When trying to get back to where you were, you are suddenly adjusting something else entirely). Manual control with digital devices has become too digital and too cumbersome. It used to be easy to adjust contrast and brightness on a display,…

Most plugins used in music software do take that approach. Where the plugin interfaces are modelled to look 'like hardware' in most cases, with nobs, sliders, all the things you'd expect on a hardware compressor / synth etc.

I like it.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#587

Post by chankstein38 »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #573
chankstein38 wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wait how do you disable the panning effect? I hate that. I just want the workspace to switch I don't need the stupid visuals that just slow everything down.

System Settings > Accessibility > Display > Reduce motion Still far from perfect, but better.

Thank you!

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#588

Post by ckyngcybra »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #516
ckyngcybra wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Is this a "no real Scotsman" defense of the UI/UX industry becoming subordinate to Marketing Departments?

I've never heard/read of that concept before. Is it the same as there is no such thing as an honest person?

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#589

Post by indymike »

Scroll bars have been a problem two ways:

1. Out of context bare-ui style scroll bars in web textareas and mis-sized iframes in most web browsers.

2. Lack of screen real estate on early, lower resolution mobile devices left designers looking for something better.

On the web design front, scrollbars have been customizable via JS and CSS for some time now. On the mobile front, swiping is fun, but it's really nice when you can just tap about where you want to be in whatever you are viewing.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#590

Post by michaelteter »

I know it feels clunky (perhaps) aesthetically to have thick scroll bars and thick sliding dividers and thick window borders, but I would choose ergnomics over prettiness.

Even as a normal human with good motor control, good equipment, and decent eyesight, I routinely encounter situations (macOS) where I have to carefully move the pointer back and forth across a region where I know the "line" (divider, border) is so I get the opportunity to move something.

Another related problem is the overloading of the title bar. In the past, the title bar was always there for each window. Grabbing and moving a window was very easy. Now, many apps try to move menus and other controls into that space, leaving the user to find the few pixels here or there which can be grabbed to move the window (rather than taking some action within the app). Some apps allow you to revert to normal title bar (thank you Firefox), but some don't. And true, you gain some valuable screen space from what would normally be a wasted big area of title bar, but the tradeoff sucks when you need to move something.

Post reply on HN