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Scrollbars are becoming a problem

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Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#371

Post by aembleton »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #354
bentcorner wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall a site that had progressive scrolling and some content in a footer I was trying to get to...

Been there done that. You have to scroll faster than the combination of bandwidth size and JS computation. Turn it into a game: visit the site progressively working backwards through your old phones until you can 'win'. Then see if you've got time to take a screenshot. If you actually need to click a link in the footer the only way to win is not to play.

Or turn off js

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#373

Post by alanbernstein »

codalan wrote: post #135

It's not just scrollbars. It's the elimination of window borders. Aside from not being able to differentiate one window from another similarly colored window in the background, it's nearly impossible to click and hold on anything along the edge to resize the window. It's the overloading of the title bar with so much shit like search boxes and extraneous buttons that a user has almost no place to grip to move the wind…

Not that you're wrong, but IMO the moving and resizing complaints are resolved by the Ubuntu behavior of (IIRC) alt-leftclick-drag and alt-middleclick-drag. It completely eliminates the need to find any special target within the window: just click anywhere inside it.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#374

Post by mackrevinack »

codalan wrote: post #135

It's not just scrollbars. It's the elimination of window borders. Aside from not being able to differentiate one window from another similarly colored window in the background, it's nearly impossible to click and hold on anything along the edge to resize the window. It's the overloading of the title bar with so much shit like search boxes and extraneous buttons that a user has almost no place to grip to move the wind…

that really bugs me any time i have to use a Windows computer. on linux (on pop os or zorin os at least) you just hold down the super/windows key and then left click and drag anywhere on the window to move it.

pop os also puts a thick border around that active window which makes it much easier to see where you are

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#375

Post by shiroiuma »

nerdponx wrote: post #303
masklinn wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everything old is new again? I remember when people were deriding Windows XP for being "Fisher-Price" in appearance and preferring to run Windows 2000 because it was more stable That’s more of a truth universally acknowledged. XP was goofy then, it’s goofy now, and it was goofy at every instant between.

Yes but in hindsight endearingly so. And the UX itself was still really good. The start menu in particular was an actual improvement over the old one, as were the clickable login screen icons.

The usability was very good. The appearance was goofy and Fisher-Price-like. The two things are mostly orthogonal.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#376

Post by alpaca128 »

Pannoniae wrote: post #10

I have come to a funny realisation recently. It's not my eyesight which is becoming worse, it's the UIs which are becoming worse. The tiny scrollbars with laughable contrast are in no way accessible to anyone. I've recently switched to using KDE with the Oxygen theme and it's a joy to use without any eye strain. These scrollbars are absolutely pathetic, with no room for customisation. (good luck theming a locked-down…

> we wouldn't need "dark mode" or the such if the UIs had any contrast and were legible

Have you tried dark mode in Windows 11? It turns the entire window bar black, if multiple window bars happen to overlap it is impossible to tell them apart visually. On top of that in some programs it also turns the close/min/max window buttons completely black unless hovered by the cursor!

Microsoft should fire everyone at the company who ever made a UX design decision - except for the people who made the Windows Phone 8 UI, their only consistent and intuitive UI in the last 15 years.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#377

Post by arcanemachiner »

happymellon wrote: post #315
arcanemachiner wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did it because my computer was a POS. But then it turns out I have a minimalism kink, so I've been doing that ever since. I use XFCE btw

> I use XFCE btw No offense, but I cannot possibly trust your judgement when you use a DE that, by default, is the classic example of no window borders for the mouse to grab onto.

Alt + click-and-drag solves that problem.

Also I use i3 so my windows are tiled most of the time.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#378

Post by alpaca128 »

autoexec wrote: post #20

Once again I have to give firefox credit for giving users the tools in about:config to disable this. It's cute fluff at best and annoying/abusive at worst. The browser's UI should more or less be fully off the table when it comes to what a website can change, and that includes scrollbars.

Not to mention it is the only program I ever used which lets you directly rearrange the UI. Three clicks and you can reorder or remove buttons, margins etc, we need something like that in every program including a color chooser for every element.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#379

Post by zorrolovsky »

codalan wrote: post #135

It's not just scrollbars. It's the elimination of window borders. Aside from not being able to differentiate one window from another similarly colored window in the background, it's nearly impossible to click and hold on anything along the edge to resize the window. It's the overloading of the title bar with so much shit like search boxes and extraneous buttons that a user has almost no place to grip to move the wind…

> It's amazing how much damage these cargo-cult UI/UX morons have done in the past ten years. They threw out several decades of usability pioneered by real HID experts for something that looks pretty but doesn't fucking work for a lot of people.

No need to throw insults. I love HN because it's one of the few places where civil debate trumps the hateful tone of all other platforms.

I fundamentally agree with usability being more important than aesthetics. But I don't know what you mean by UX/UI cargo-cult morons.

I'm a UX/UI leader with 20+ years of experience. To me, the main culprits of crimes against usability are business leaders and marketers, not designers (although these do bear some of the blame). Yes, there are designers who think form is more important than function and push for small scrollbars. However, when you explain the issues they often back down and create usable designs. I wish the same was true for C-level leaders, marketing leaders and managers. In UI terms they're both ignorant and opinionated. A dangerous combination. Their demands are typically "I like the scrollbar of this website", " the design doesn't look modern" and similar. The amount of fighting that takes to push for usability and accessibility is excruciating. We need some roles and ranks to act more professionally, and trust the experts. And yes, we also need some designers to think usability first.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#380

Post by CookiesOnMyDesk »

rayiner wrote: post #175
codalan wrote: post #135

It's not just scrollbars. It's the elimination of window borders. Aside from not being able to differentiate one window from another similarly colored window in the background, it's nearly impossible to click and hold on anything along the edge to resize the window. It's the overloading of the title bar with so much shit like search boxes and extraneous buttons that a user has almost no place to grip to move the wind…

“Morons” is the right word. I don’t like to gratuitously shit on people doing their jobs. But what the hell? I can’t move a window anymore without clicking around like an idiot to figure out what’s part of the title bar and what’s a button. Every time I start “New Teams,” it asks me if I want to go back to Old Teams. If I open a PDF in New Teams from the file browser, it’s not obvious how to close the PDF without los…

>Every time I start “New Teams,” it asks me if I want to go back to Old Teams

Are you sure you’re not accidentally opening the old Teams application? When you update to new Teams it leaves the old version in place so you have both, and if you open Teams with the new shortcut/application you won’t get prompted to switch back.

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