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Scrollbars are becoming a problem

artemis.sh

71–80 of 944 posts

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#71
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it ironic that in order for your comment to be accessible the reader must lookup “a11y” to find that it means “accessibility”.

That's like saying you shouldn't use slang because people have to look it up.

there's that yes, also, but it's not what he wrote and it's not like it

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#72

You know what's an accessibility problem for a lot of people over 40? White text on a dark background. I don't think I'll ever get tired of hearing people advocate for making web pages readable for people my age. Yeah, opening up the inspector and updating the author's CSS made it readable for me, but made the shell script unreadable.

Why do you find it hard to read?

Not that old, but I have astigmatism. And every spot of light has a glow around it. Black on white is better because the characters only got thinner. But light characters on dark background is like having tiny projectors and the shapes are not recognizable at a glance.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#74

You know what's an accessibility problem for a lot of people over 40? White text on a dark background. I don't think I'll ever get tired of hearing people advocate for making web pages readable for people my age. Yeah, opening up the inspector and updating the author's CSS made it readable for me, but made the shell script unreadable.

I'm under 40 and this puts immense strain on my eyes. After reading a few paragraphs if I look over to the wall I will see persistent shadow-text in my vision for 30 seconds or more. Very uncomfortable. It's to the point that if highlighting all the text doesn't mitigate the dark/white contrast, I'll just avoid reading that page entirely.

I’m 30 and been this way since at least 19. I can’t stand most darkmode implementations because they often suck. Good ones are nice.

I love coding with white themes and full brightness. Never feel tired. Very lucky in that sense.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#75
post #59

The author sees half the problem and offers the worse half of a solution. A scrollbar is not only a control, it's also an indicator . It shows where your viewport is relative to the bigger view, e.g. a long list. Hiding scrollbars, like some [redacted] GUIs like macOS do, is just acutely impolite, much like making buttons indistinguishable from text, or putting light grey text on a light grey background. A solution e…

>A solution exists, and is nearly universally implemented: scroll wheels on a mouse, and scroll gestures on a trackpad.

So you didn't read the article huh. The very first paragraph says:

>“Ah”, they say, “that’s what the scroll wheel is for”. My friend, not everyone can use a scroll wheel or a swipe up touch screen.

Or literally the next paragraph about difficulties small/hidden scrollbars cause with other input methods, e.g. eye trackers.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#76

You know what's an accessibility problem for a lot of people over 40? White text on a dark background. I don't think I'll ever get tired of hearing people advocate for making web pages readable for people my age. Yeah, opening up the inspector and updating the author's CSS made it readable for me, but made the shell script unreadable.

I'm under 40 and this puts immense strain on my eyes. After reading a few paragraphs if I look over to the wall I will see persistent shadow-text in my vision for 30 seconds or more. Very uncomfortable. It's to the point that if highlighting all the text doesn't mitigate the dark/white contrast, I'll just avoid reading that page entirely.

I know that shadow text vision all too well. I find it helpful to lower the brightness when viewing text like that.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#77
> On the one paw, recompile my GUI theme? - but hey I’m a gentoo user I do that every friday anyway, I could just drop a patch in I guess… RECOMPILE MY GUI THEME??

Gentoo is a great learning exercise, but Arch has me focusing on doing things.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the context of the original iPhone at least, hiding the scrollbar when not scrolling makes some amount of sense… when your screen is 3.5" in size and your goal is to render content with "desktop" fidelity, there's not a whole lot of room for a scrollbar, plus most people aren't going to be interacting with the scrollbar. For desktop OSes where the smallest screen being used is much larger on the other hand there's…

> there's not much of a good reason to hide them. It looks nicer + you can just use the scroll wheel. A lot of the UI affordances lost over the last decade or two are unfortunate, but complaints about scroll bars seem to be purely baby duck syndrome.

I keep 10,000 lines of scrollback in iTerm. Flicking the scroll wheel isn't gonna cut it. I NEED the scrollbar.

I was searching for a way to make Mac scrollbars wider literally yesterday. It's 100% a real problem.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#79

> designers do not sit with non technical users to conduct usability testing It wouldn’t matter if they did. I’ve been a web developer for nearly 25 years and have worked with many many designers. You know they care about? Pixel perfect layouts that match their “vision”. UX isn’t even a fleeting thought.

While not all designers are like this, many are. I've seen designers come out of actual UX studies involving real users, saying "Well, while this is one data point, we think those users are wrong." There's no getting through.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the context of the original iPhone at least, hiding the scrollbar when not scrolling makes some amount of sense… when your screen is 3.5" in size and your goal is to render content with "desktop" fidelity, there's not a whole lot of room for a scrollbar, plus most people aren't going to be interacting with the scrollbar. For desktop OSes where the smallest screen being used is much larger on the other hand there's…

> there's not much of a good reason to hide them. It looks nicer + you can just use the scroll wheel. A lot of the UI affordances lost over the last decade or two are unfortunate, but complaints about scroll bars seem to be purely baby duck syndrome.

It does not look nicer. It looks more mysterious. Where in the list am I? Is there anything below to scroll to? Above? To the right, everyone's favorite?

And no, trying to scroll every control just to find this out is not my ideal of usability and comfort.

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