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Scrollbars are becoming a problem

artemis.sh

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Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#11

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

rubyfan wrote: post #8
LapsangGuzzler wrote: post #3

Whenever I read a piece like this or another UX blog, it just becomes so obvious how little we care about a11y. “Good” (as in accessible) design is pretty boring and decluttered compared to most modern expectations of web apps. I read Adam Silver’s book on forms and came away realizing that we’re doing it entirely wrong from an a11y standpoint but that’s just not a priority.

I find it ironic that in order for your comment to be accessible the reader must lookup “a11y” to find that it means “accessibility”.

Relatedly, "i18n" is hard for non-native speakers to understand too, how ironically apt.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#12

Post by dredmorbius »

My own ~2019 rant on the ongoing deprecation of scrollbars appears to have succumbed to another digital scourge: bitrot.

The HN submission (320 comments) here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21356511>

Ello has been down for months now with issues at TalentHouse AG (apparently in or near bankruptcy), and archives of that site at both the Wayback Machine and the (usually successful) Archive Today ... show no actual content best I can tell.

Sigh.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#13

Post by pmontra »

Aeolun wrote: post #7

I don’t think this is UX/UI designers not knowing/caring about accessibility. It’s their bosses saying the tiny scrollbar is preferred because it sells 20% more due to the aesthetics being better. Who cares about the 0.5% of disabled people that weren’t likely to buy your app anyway. Same for browsers, FF may care about accessibility, but they won’t lose the browser wars (bit of a moot point by now, but eh) because m…

Do Gnome and GTK sell any better because they use tiny scrollbars? Or Macs, or Windows? Apps do what the OS let them do.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#15

Post by rcxdude »

Aeolun wrote: post #7

I don’t think this is UX/UI designers not knowing/caring about accessibility. It’s their bosses saying the tiny scrollbar is preferred because it sells 20% more due to the aesthetics being better. Who cares about the 0.5% of disabled people that weren’t likely to buy your app anyway. Same for browsers, FF may care about accessibility, but they won’t lose the browser wars (bit of a moot point by now, but eh) because m…

Perhaps, but I think a large part of this is designers assuming the scrollbar isn't actually for scrolling anymore, and treating is as simply a position indicator. Which for users who exlusively use a trackpad/touchscreen/scrollwheel for scrolling, it is. Ignorance tends to be the largest cause of accessibility issues.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#16

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #5

Maybe the solution is to improve the accessibility tools, not hack scrollbars. Assistive technologies should not just try to emulate the computer, but try to also use their specific strengths. For example, shouldn't eyetrackers be able to use blink or eyeroll gestures, or have a virtual "scroll down" "button" (focus target) underneath the screen?

> Maybe the solution is to improve the accessibility tools, not hack scrollbars

I doubt you meant it, but your post reads like you're advocating less-abled people purchase (often expensive) eye-trackers instead of making scrollbars generally more usable for everyone.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#17

Post by scoot »

> And while the bars were shrinking, another feature silently disappeared: buttons to click and hold down to scroll left/right in increments.

This feature still exists, with a larger clickable surface, but with lower affordance – the entire area above and below the scroll bar is a "button" for exactly that purpose.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#18

Post by demyinn »

rubyfan wrote: post #8
LapsangGuzzler wrote: post #3

Whenever I read a piece like this or another UX blog, it just becomes so obvious how little we care about a11y. “Good” (as in accessible) design is pretty boring and decluttered compared to most modern expectations of web apps. I read Adam Silver’s book on forms and came away realizing that we’re doing it entirely wrong from an a11y standpoint but that’s just not a priority.

I find it ironic that in order for your comment to be accessible the reader must lookup “a11y” to find that it means “accessibility”.

This is so funny because I read the parent post, looked up "a11y", and then read your response. Had a pretty good laugh.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#19

Post by thisgoesnowhere »

rubyfan wrote: post #8
LapsangGuzzler wrote: post #3

Whenever I read a piece like this or another UX blog, it just becomes so obvious how little we care about a11y. “Good” (as in accessible) design is pretty boring and decluttered compared to most modern expectations of web apps. I read Adam Silver’s book on forms and came away realizing that we’re doing it entirely wrong from an a11y standpoint but that’s just not a priority.

I find it ironic that in order for your comment to be accessible the reader must lookup “a11y” to find that it means “accessibility”.

That's like saying you shouldn't use slang because people have to look it up.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#20

Post by autoexec »

Once again I have to give firefox credit for giving users the tools in about:config to disable this. It's cute fluff at best and annoying/abusive at worst.

The browser's UI should more or less be fully off the table when it comes to what a website can change, and that includes scrollbars.

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