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France bans all pro-Palestinian demonstrations

bbc.com

81–90 of 198 posts

Re: France bans all pro-Palestinian demonstrations

#81
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problems were not the demonstrations, it was the barrage of death threats against Jews (inside France). Which were linked and exacerbated because of the demonstrations. The demonstrations themselves are acceptable - but the linked death threats definitely aren't, and unfortunately the state apparatus is not set up to deal adequately with the latter.

Can you expand on how the death threats were linked to the protests? I tend to think focusing on the threats themselves would be the better approach. Having trouble seeing how shutting down protest would help.

Look at January 6th. Many people came to "peacefully protest" the election and got swept up in doing something they didn't expect to do.

I don't know if you can conclusively prove they were directly linked, but we've seen how online people get radicalized by finding a community that espouses abhorrent ideas and then go on to commit crimes in service of that community. Real life gatherings and protests can have the same radicalizing effect in certain cases. That's not to say all of them do - the ideology behind the protest matters.

I agree that focusing on death threats would be a better approach - the problem is that it's very hard to find perpetrators and very easy to commit. Deterrence doesn't scale in that case.

Re: France bans all pro-Palestinian demonstrations

#82
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are people calling them hate rallies? Because their immediate response to an unprecedented atrocity was to spontaneously organize a public celebration. Yeah, and? I want these people to go mask-off. Silencing them just gives them plausible deniability, and that's what we can't afford to let them have if we really want to fight and defeat them politically. Did we do a better job fighting the American far-right b…

> Yeah, and? I want these people to go mask-off. Supporting civilians in Gaza is not going “mask off”. However, the leader of the “only democracy in the Middle East” calling gazans animals is. Also, this dude is the minister of national security of Israel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itamar_Ben-Gvir?wprov=sfti1 This is someone who was so racist, the IDF exempted him from military service. This person is now leading…

>Supporting civilians in Gaza is not going “mask off”.

The great thing about free speech is that if French demonstrators just support the humanitarian needs and basic rights and freedoms of Gazan civilians, then we'll see that when they demonstrate freely. And if they do like the demonstrators in Sydney and yell, "gas the Jews!", we'll see that too.

Re: France bans all pro-Palestinian demonstrations

#83
post #66

I think it is absolutely grotesque and distasteful to hold pro rallies for Palestine and Hamas right now, but I would not stop them. They should be free to protest and speak.

Is anyone holding pro-Hamas rallies? I have only heard of Pro-Palestinian. The two are obviously not the same.

https://www.reuters.com/world/police-investigate-pro-palesti...

When the pro Palestinian rally is chanting gas the Jews, it might be pro hamas as well.

Re: France bans all pro-Palestinian demonstrations

#84
post #66

I think it is absolutely grotesque and distasteful to hold pro rallies for Palestine and Hamas right now, but I would not stop them. They should be free to protest and speak.

Is anyone holding pro-Hamas rallies? I have only heard of Pro-Palestinian. The two are obviously not the same.

Yes, the demonstrators in the USA who cried "glory to the martyrs!" were pro-Hamas, at least in their own words.

Re: France bans all pro-Palestinian demonstrations

#85
post #73

Since we’re off HN topic anyways, can someone ELI5 why Israel blockades / occupies Palestinian territories? I would think given the treatment of Jews during WWII that there would be a special desire among Israelis not to treat a group of people poorly based on immutable facts like ethnicity. I understand the hatred of Hamas but don’t understand depriving Palestinian people of medicine and clean water and free movemen…

There is no blockade.

If there was a blockade - how so many weapons got in?

Guarding the borders is essential - we saw what they did in a few hours without them. Burning women alive. Decapitating babies. Raping teenagers then shooting them.

Without a guarded border - they'll do a second holocaust. That's not a speculation - that's a proven fact.

Re: France bans all pro-Palestinian demonstrations

#86

I think it is absolutely grotesque and distasteful to hold pro rallies for Palestine and Hamas right now, but I would not stop them. They should be free to protest and speak.

I would absolutely stop them.

Given they are chanting "Gas the Jews" and "Rape the Jews".

These are not protests - these are death marches.

Re: France bans all pro-Palestinian demonstrations

#87
post #86

I think it is absolutely grotesque and distasteful to hold pro rallies for Palestine and Hamas right now, but I would not stop them. They should be free to protest and speak.

I would absolutely stop them. Given they are chanting "Gas the Jews" and "Rape the Jews". These are not protests - these are death marches.

>Given they are chanting "Gas the Jews" and "Rape the Jews".

When?

Re: France bans all pro-Palestinian demonstrations

#88
post #73

Since we’re off HN topic anyways, can someone ELI5 why Israel blockades / occupies Palestinian territories? I would think given the treatment of Jews during WWII that there would be a special desire among Israelis not to treat a group of people poorly based on immutable facts like ethnicity. I understand the hatred of Hamas but don’t understand depriving Palestinian people of medicine and clean water and free movemen…

It's not about ethnicity or religion per se. The land israel occupies was taken by force from palestinians. Gaza specifically is to a large extent simply a refugee camp for those displaced to create the state of israel, and their descendants. Both groups have, from their own perspective, a valid and exclusive claim to the land there. If not prevented from doing so, palestinians would certainly reclaim the homes and f…

Ok I understand this but why prevent clean water and food and medicine from crossing the border? Why disallow them from trade while simultaneously not letting them into Israel?

Re: France bans all pro-Palestinian demonstrations

#90
post #85
post #73

Since we’re off HN topic anyways, can someone ELI5 why Israel blockades / occupies Palestinian territories? I would think given the treatment of Jews during WWII that there would be a special desire among Israelis not to treat a group of people poorly based on immutable facts like ethnicity. I understand the hatred of Hamas but don’t understand depriving Palestinian people of medicine and clean water and free movemen…

There is no blockade. If there was a blockade - how so many weapons got in? Guarding the borders is essential - we saw what they did in a few hours without them. Burning women alive. Decapitating babies. Raping teenagers then shooting them. Without a guarded border - they'll do a second holocaust. That's not a speculation - that's a proven fact.

"If there was a blockade - how so many weapons got in?"

Tunnels.

"Decapitating babies."

This was fabricated.

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