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Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

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Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#151

Post by rangestransform »

mikrl wrote: post #82
trothamel wrote: post #79

Note that like most laws, Jaywalking laws tend to make more sense when you read them. Here's the law in New York: https://law.justia.com/codes/new-york/2015/vat/title-7/artic... 1152. Crossing at other than crosswalks. (a) Every pedestrian crossing a roadway at any point other than within a marked crosswalk or within an unmarked crosswalk at an intersection shall yield the right of way to all vehicles upon the roadwa…

Canada specific, but… Diagonal crossing is a thing in Quebec City at certain intersections which stop the traffic flow in every direction. Otherwise I only ever do it when I cannot see any cars which is fairly common at night in rural areas.

They’re typically called scramble crosswalks. The most famous one is Shibuya scramble, but they also have them in LA.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#152

Post by enragedcacti »

jcpst wrote: post #97

Where I live in the US, people simply do not stop at pedestrian crosswalks. It doesn’t matter that there’s a large fluorescent sign, and bold white stripes on the road, and a person waiting to cross. I’ve even had a police officer drive straight through while I was waiting to cross. But it seems like they’re respected if you install large flashing lights that the pedestrian can activate.

> But it seems like they’re respected if you install large flashing lights that the pedestrian can activate.

I live near one of these and not even the strobing yellow lights are always enough to get drivers to yield. I've never once been able to cross when cars are present without fairly recklessly walking in front of them.

Maybe I'll have to try the brick method: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEI8ppiMzZM

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#153

Post by pjscott »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #137
trothamel wrote: post #79

Note that like most laws, Jaywalking laws tend to make more sense when you read them. Here's the law in New York: https://law.justia.com/codes/new-york/2015/vat/title-7/artic... 1152. Crossing at other than crosswalks. (a) Every pedestrian crossing a roadway at any point other than within a marked crosswalk or within an unmarked crosswalk at an intersection shall yield the right of way to all vehicles upon the roadwa…

Jaywalking shouldn't ever be a criminal offense. (Intentionally obstructing traffic is a separate issue.) Ticket pedestrians for creating an unsafe environment. It's what we do to drivers when they do the analogous thing.

To clarify: under the laws linked above, jaywalking is categorized not as a crime or misdemeanor but as a traffic infraction, just like breaking the speed limit or failing to signal a turn.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#154

Post by [deleted] »

zelon88 wrote: post #45
Fricken wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite the opposite. Automakers passed the responsibility on to people who don't even drive.

I've noticed that people who don't drive usually don't have frame of reference of what cars are capable of, and usually don't understand all of the simultaneous requirements that must be fulfilled by drivers. So you get pedestrians who don't understand what the stopping distance of a car is, or pedestrians who don't recognize dangerous situations that they create. In other words, people with driving experience are us…

[deleted]

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#155

Post by wredue »

maest wrote: post #69
wredue wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I’m just thinking outside of the box here, but how exactly do 3,000 lbs pieces of metal and glass become safer for people crossing the street in an addressable way by auto makers, when it’s the buyers demanding larger and larger vehicles? On segregated bike lanes, I’m afraid to tell you, cyclists don’t use them anyway, so why on earth should anyone focus on putting them in?

> cyclists don’t use them anyway This claim is so ridiculous is invalidates everything else you might be trying to argue, come on.

My dash cam filled with video of cyclists riding in a car lane beside a protected bike lane, and otherwise ignoring signage (stop and yield signs, signs stating road exceptions where bikes must use and share the sidewalk with pedestrians instead of the road) is definitely not ridiculous.

Also hilariously “why do cyclists not use the bike lanes” is a top alternative question result when searching bike lanes. Clearly this is not some random anecdote. Cyclists frequently do not use the bike lanes, and I am absolutely not anywhere near the only person to observe this frequently.

Never mind that:

-Protected bike lane implementations often congest and slow traffic, which increases idling and carbon emissions no matter how many people say they’ll bike if it was safer. They won’t get their fat ass off out of bed 40 minutes earlier. You’re kidding yourself.

-in colder climates, they’re useless for 50% of the year and exceptionally increase carbon footprints

-some cities don’t actually observe reduced injuries from protected bike lanes (often because cyclists are extremely prone to ignoring the rules of the road), and cyclists disregard their own safety and get slapped by a turning vehicle, for example. We often see the excuse that “cars should pay more attention” and they should, but also, motorcyclists have built a sentiment that you have to “ride like you’re invisible”, whereas cyclists tend to “ride like you’re the king of the road”. This is not just a car problem, but an arrogant community with a lack of self preservation problem.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#156

Post by watwut »

macleginn wrote: post #25
jcynix wrote: post #11

If you cross the street "near" a red traffic light, that costs you 5€ in Germany. If you admit that you did it intentionally, the ticket price doubles. Happened to my wife some years ago when walking to a bus stop on the other side of the street. How did the cop know that it was intentional? She remarked that there was no car in sight, neither left nor right, on a straight road in town. Oh, and what's the definition…

As many other aspects of the German ethos, this seems to be dying away. I live near Stuttgart, jaywalking is rampant, and nobody cares; in two years, I haven’t seen a traffic cop anywhere except for accident sites.

It was not near crossing, surely :)

But like, German do not actually respect all the posted rules. Nec ver did.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#157

Post by Animats »

paldepind2 wrote: post #21
cjensen wrote: post #10

The Library of Congress has a great film taken from the front of a cable car in pre-fire San Francisco [1]. It's absolutely terrifying to see how unsafe the streets were. It wasn't just cars either: horse-drawn carts dart in and out of traffic just as cars did, pedestrians cross at-will in front of all vehicles, and at one points kids mess about jumping on the back of vehicles. It's obvious major regulation was neede…

Very interesting video. Thanks for sharing. It looks a bit chaotic but honestly not _that_ unsafe to me as everything is going quite slow. It reminds me a bit of the idea of "shared space" which is a recent concept that is actually claimed to make streets safer.

> It reminds me a bit of the idea of "shared space" which is a recent concept that is actually claimed to make streets safer.

It's a 1990s concept from France. It was implemented in the 1990s on Theater Way in Redwood City. CA, and did not work well. One side of the street has a curb, but the other side does not. Vehicle traffic was allowed, and people could get out in front of the movie theater. The other side of the street, with no barriers, had cafe tables.[1]

This worked badly. The cafe tables kept creeping outward. Some auto traffic was too fast. During COVID, the outside seating kept growing into the roadway. Plastic bollards were erected to discourage non-delivery traffic. Overpowered electric bikes zooming through became an problem. Police cars were sometimes deployed to block the roadway. Then plastic Jersey-type barriers were set up at one end, but not filled with water, so they could be moved for deliveries. Currently, one end of the street has been torn up for installation of some kind of raiseable barrier.

[1] https://earth.google.com/web/@37.48560402,-122.22909676,5.07...

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#158

Post by chung8123 »

This is like saying automakers destroyed the trolly system. It was the people that did this by popular opinion. Most people in the US use cars, like the convenience of cars, and will vote in a car centric manner. Blaming automakers is just absolving the people of blame.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#159

Post by robocat »

jcpst wrote: post #97

Where I live in the US, people simply do not stop at pedestrian crosswalks. It doesn’t matter that there’s a large fluorescent sign, and bold white stripes on the road, and a person waiting to cross. I’ve even had a police officer drive straight through while I was waiting to cross. But it seems like they’re respected if you install large flashing lights that the pedestrian can activate.

New Zealand:

  At zebra crossings with no traffic island, stop and give way to people walking on any part of the crossing or who are waiting to cross.
From: https://www.nzta.govt.nz/roadcode/code-for-cycling/intersect...

NZ also has courtesy crossings:

  Courtesy crossings are usually made of bricks or paving or raised above the level of the road. A courtesy crossing is not an official pedestrian crossing, but to be polite, you should stop for people on the footpath waiting to cross. You must give way to people already crossing.
AFAIK we don't have jaywalking laws (certainly the word "jaywalking" is not locally recognised except as something that is foreign/American).

Our cops are pretty busy - you would have to be pretty unlucky to get a ticket. But also the social norms in NZ are to be polite - drivers tend to be more forgiving towards pedestrians than some other countries. The justice system is definitely very unforgiving towards anyone that actually hits a pedestrian.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#160

Post by boring_twenties »

talideon wrote: post #75
nerdjon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pedestrians should also take responsibility for acting dangerously. To me it's the same if a driver cuts in front of me and then slams on their brakes, there was nothing I could have done about crashing into them no matter how safely I was driving. If a person runs in front of a moving vehicle it shouldn't be the driver responsible if they basically cut the car off. A car can't stop on a dime. Drivers should be held…

If you can't "stop in a dime" somewhere you might expect pedestrians, either the speed limit is too high or you're speeding. You mention drivers cutting in front and pedestrians running out into the street, but not drivers who aren't paying due attention or who think that amber lights are advisory at best and a signal to speed up at worst. I'm one of those saps who actually crosses at pedestrian crossings even where…

> I'll continue to turn my head towards oncoming traffic when I cross so the driver who might end up killing me has my face seared into their brain.

That's not going to work, you need to post it on their Instagram feed instead.

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