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Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

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Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#91

Post by InitialLastName »

zelon88 wrote: post #45
Fricken wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite the opposite. Automakers passed the responsibility on to people who don't even drive.

I've noticed that people who don't drive usually don't have frame of reference of what cars are capable of, and usually don't understand all of the simultaneous requirements that must be fulfilled by drivers. So you get pedestrians who don't understand what the stopping distance of a car is, or pedestrians who don't recognize dangerous situations that they create. In other words, people with driving experience are us…

I see plenty of people who are drivers also clearly incapable of meeting or understanding all the simultaneous requirements that must be fulfilled by drivers.

Looking up from their phones being at the top of the list.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#92

Post by [deleted] »

sandworm101 wrote: post #2

How quickly we forget history. Horses were also lethal. Look at the number of people killed by horses, either being thrown from them, trampled by them, or run over by carts pulled by horses. Streets were not some utopic garden of pedestrian safety prior to cars. There were no jaywalking rules because society had evolved over thousands of years being rather acceptive of horse-related dangers. When the new device came…

[deleted]

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#93

Post by jeremy_wiebe »

My issue, as a driver, is that more and more pedestrians walk wherever and whenever they want with complete disregard for their environment. I’ve had to hit the brakes pretty hard on several occasions when I had “right of way” (right turn light, for example) and a pedestrian stepped off the curb with their face buried in their phone.

I see the fines for jaywalking as a function to encourage safety rather than criminalizing sensible behaviour (ie crossing a completely empty street probably won’t yield a fine but crossing a busy street while holding your arm out to stop traffic will, and should).

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#94

Post by snthd »

ilaksh wrote: post #28
paldepind2 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very interesting video. Thanks for sharing. It looks a bit chaotic but honestly not _that_ unsafe to me as everything is going quite slow. It reminds me a bit of the idea of "shared space" which is a recent concept that is actually claimed to make streets safer.

I think it comes down to things like speed. If we accept that the road is a place to be able to quickly move a lot of vehicles, then that just isn't a safe place for pedestrians. If we go back to lower speeds then maybe it could be manageable in a same way. But as it is actually used now for 3000 pound vehicles to zoom about in, it makes no sense for pedestrians to be intersecting and sharing the space at all. Just d…

The Dutch do road design/purpose very well, and they didn't start with a new development.

https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2012/01/02/sustainable-sa...

https://swov.nl/system/files/publication-downloads/dv3_en_ko... (pdf)

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#95

Post by interestica »

rrradical wrote: post #88
avalys wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are tons of traffic laws that make things technically illegal even if they're perfectly safe ("no U-turn"), for the purpose of keeping traffic flow orderly and efficient. Not sure why this should be any different or why pedestrians should not be expected to follow traffic laws, or why the law should allow pedestrians to step into traffic whenever and wherever they want.

U-turns are not perfectly safe. Last week I saw a U-turner almost a hit a biker as they backed up after not being able to complete the turn in one pass. Can they be done safely? Sure. But that's not the same as perfectly safe.

> as they backed up

That's no longer a U-turn

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#96

Post by Tade0 »

moritzwarhier wrote: post #27
sandworm101 wrote: post #2

How quickly we forget history. Horses were also lethal. Look at the number of people killed by horses, either being thrown from them, trampled by them, or run over by carts pulled by horses. Streets were not some utopic garden of pedestrian safety prior to cars. There were no jaywalking rules because society had evolved over thousands of years being rather acceptive of horse-related dangers. When the new device came…

I immediately thought of this as well (horse sleigh scene in Dostoyevsky's Crime and Punishment comes to mind, I mean, neither of us has experience with horse-first transportation, I assume). I just arrived at a different conclusion. To compare the number of people killed by automobiles and their infrastructure, compared to the numbers for people killed by horses (I can't give precise numbers for either, I'll admit t…

Well, the "village idiot" was usually one not because he was born this way and his parents cared for him until adulthood, but because he got kicked by a horse/cow and survived, albeit with brain damage.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#97

Post by jcpst »

Where I live in the US, people simply do not stop at pedestrian crosswalks. It doesn’t matter that there’s a large fluorescent sign, and bold white stripes on the road, and a person waiting to cross. I’ve even had a police officer drive straight through while I was waiting to cross.

But it seems like they’re respected if you install large flashing lights that the pedestrian can activate.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#98

Post by akira2501 »

Fricken wrote: post #71
akira2501 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Automakers passed the responsibility on to people who don't even drive. We have roads. They are shared by all users and taxpayers for common purposes. The responsibilities are likewise shared. The available technology changed. We can't expect to force the prior status quo to continue to exist in the face of available technological changes. This article points out that attitudes like your similarly existed at the ti…

Going whole hog with an unsustainable technology is not reasonable, never was.

Okay.. so what if they skipped gasoline and built electric from the start? That's "sustainable" according to some modern definition. What should we have done then?

Meanwhile.. take a look at the way life was 120 years ago. Are you eager to go back to the rural life of farm labor that implied for the majority of Americans?

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#99

Post by kzrdude »

csswizardry wrote: post #20

As a Brit, ‘jaywalking’ is so alien to me. I once jaywalked in front of a police car who stopped and waved/signalled me across the road! Whenever I’m overseas, crossing anywhere when the road is clear is second nature to me and I have to remind myself not to. Conversely, you can always spot a foreigner in the UK: they’re the ones waiting for the signal at a deserted crossing at 2am.

I'll defend the waiting people: If I don't know the city or country that well, then I'm more careful.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#100

Post by rurban »

pengaru wrote: post #8

PSA: On January 1, 2023, jaywalking became legal in California with the Freedom to Walk Act, reversing what was once one of the strictest laws against this practice in the country. Now, pedestrians can cross the road at places other than intersections and crosswalks without penalty.

Because of this incident:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/california-cops-scrutiny-teens-jay...

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