Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

France bans all pro-Palestinian demonstrations

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 198 posts

Re: France bans all pro-Palestinian demonstrations

#31

Post by jabradoodle »

2356234562537 wrote: post #11
Clubber wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, all the people who couldn't imagine the censorship being used against "their team," here it is. It always happens. Censorship is the tool of authoritarians. Fight it in every form.

Well. My team doesn't hold rallys where people yell to gas the jews after a major terrorist attack. So... It's not that I can't imagine it being used against me it's just that I don't do that anyway so not being allowed to do it isn't a loss.

That is not what they banned, I strongly suspect that is already illegal.

Also, your "my team" take is bordering on, if not racist. There is no "other team", they are diverse individuals who have opinions that differ from yours.

Re: France bans all pro-Palestinian demonstrations

#32

Post by mensetmanusman »

jruohonen wrote: post #5
the_bookmaker wrote: post #2

France essentially has inquisition courts, which for example Houellebecq [1] (a prominent author) and Zemmour [2] (a former presidential candidate) had to suffer through. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Houellebecq [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89ric_Zemmourcandi

I've commented about this overall situation in France a few times, and yes, they've gone after fundamental rights also before. Which is kind of weird given their history. EDIT: Over again, some Americans seem to think that this is about the "freedom of speech", whereas, in reality, it is about the freedom of assembly. That said, the situation seems pretty dire, with organizations classified as terrorists on the stree…

Peaceful assembly is speech

Re: France bans all pro-Palestinian demonstrations

#33

Post by BudaDude »

funcDropShadow wrote: post #25
johnyzee wrote: post #6

Censorship is rearing its ugly head again. Can't have the wrong opinions. I feel like this really took off with the Corona virus pandemic, again with the Ukraine invasion, and now this.

No, democracies have to have limits what they tolerate. Killing civilians just because they have a certain religion is incompatible with western values. The limit should be too not be tolerant with people that are not willing to provide the same tolerance. By that standard celebrating the killing of civilians we shouldn't tolerate.

Palestine != Hamas

Re: France bans all pro-Palestinian demonstrations

#34

Post by hef19898 »

the_bookmaker wrote: post #2

France essentially has inquisition courts, which for example Houellebecq [1] (a prominent author) and Zemmour [2] (a former presidential candidate) had to suffer through. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Houellebecq [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89ric_Zemmourcandi

Zemmour so is one of the few European polititians that are so right wing, they would put people like the space laser lady to shame...

Re: France bans all pro-Palestinian demonstrations

#35

Post by jabradoodle »

funcDropShadow wrote: post #25
johnyzee wrote: post #6

Censorship is rearing its ugly head again. Can't have the wrong opinions. I feel like this really took off with the Corona virus pandemic, again with the Ukraine invasion, and now this.

No, democracies have to have limits what they tolerate. Killing civilians just because they have a certain religion is incompatible with western values. The limit should be too not be tolerant with people that are not willing to provide the same tolerance. By that standard celebrating the killing of civilians we shouldn't tolerate.

That isn't what they banned, they banned pro Palestine demonstrations.

Not a mention of Hamas.

Re: France bans all pro-Palestinian demonstrations

#36

Post by hef19898 »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #32
jruohonen wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've commented about this overall situation in France a few times, and yes, they've gone after fundamental rights also before. Which is kind of weird given their history. EDIT: Over again, some Americans seem to think that this is about the "freedom of speech", whereas, in reality, it is about the freedom of assembly. That said, the situation seems pretty dire, with organizations classified as terrorists on the stree…

Peaceful assembly is speech

It is a seperate basic right so. And as such has to be balanced againstvall the others, inclusing free speech.

Re: France bans all pro-Palestinian demonstrations

#37

Post by debacle »

imp0cat wrote: post #19
jruohonen wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've commented about this overall situation in France a few times, and yes, they've gone after fundamental rights also before. Which is kind of weird given their history. EDIT: Over again, some Americans seem to think that this is about the "freedom of speech", whereas, in reality, it is about the freedom of assembly. That said, the situation seems pretty dire, with organizations classified as terrorists on the stree…

I think this is mostly about searching for the solutions that would prevent people from abusing the fundamental rights to advance their anti-democracy agenda.

That's not how fundamental rights are meant to work. I'm not a monarchist, but I'm happy to allow monarchists (or communists, or Sharia folk, or Baptists) to push for that form of government.

Democracy is a durable form of government unless it's systemically broken.

Re: France bans all pro-Palestinian demonstrations

#40

Post by medvezhenok »

debacle wrote: post #37
imp0cat wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is mostly about searching for the solutions that would prevent people from abusing the fundamental rights to advance their anti-democracy agenda.

That's not how fundamental rights are meant to work. I'm not a monarchist, but I'm happy to allow monarchists (or communists, or Sharia folk, or Baptists) to push for that form of government. Democracy is a durable form of government unless it's systemically broken.

I am happy to allow for any state transition that allows for a peaceful reversal of the event (i.e. an undo button). If it's a monarchy, it should be a monarchy with guardrails (i.e. could be deposed by a snap popular vote with 2/3 majority or something)

If the plan of the people, once in power, is to prevent any challenges to their power, we should not run such experiments, and those people do not deserve free speech rights.

Free speech has that paradox unfortunately built into it (see Karl Popper's Paradox of Tolerance). Universal free speech is a pipe dream you wouldn't enjoy living under.

Post reply on HN