Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015) • Hacker News Board

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#11

Post by jcynix » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 6:16 PM UTC

If you cross the street "near" a red traffic light, that costs you 5€ in Germany. If you admit that you did it intentionally, the ticket price doubles. Happened to my wife some years ago when walking to a bus stop on the other side of the street. How did the cop know that it was intentional? She remarked that there was no car in sight, neither left nor right, on a straight road in town.

Oh, and what's the definition of "near" you may ask? While in Germany almost everything is regulated in detail, the definition of "near" is up to the cop.

ObJoke: it's midnight somewhere in Europe and no car in sight, but some people are waiting for the traffic light to turn green? You can bet that these are Germans ;-0

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#12

Post by nerdjon » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 6:17 PM UTC

I am all for a pedestrian focused city, BUT cars will likely never fully disappear for emergencies, shipments, and people with disabilities.

In this particular situation I feel like while the Automakers had ulterior motives it was ultimately a net good. Pretty sure we know who will win in in a car vs a human body.

Also as much as I do believe in pedestrian focused cities, that isn't the norm in the US and likely will never be and will instead of smaller pockets (I mean it just makes sense given how large the country is). We should have more car free zones, but where we have to share the space it makes sense.

I am not going to sit here on a high horse and say I don't jay walk. But I do it knowing the risks.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#13

Post by Fricken » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 6:17 PM UTC

akira2501 wrote: post #9

sandworm101 wrote: post #2

How quickly we forget history. Horses were also lethal. Look at the number of people killed by horses, either being thrown from them, trampled by them, or run over by carts pulled by horses. Streets were not some utopic garden of pedestrian safety prior to cars. There were no jaywalking rules because society had evolved over thousands of years being rather acceptive of horse-related dangers. When the new device came…

Rephrasing the headline for honesty: "Automakers accept the responsibility for the thing they've created and attempt to improve safety outcomes in a patchwork regulatory environment dominated by gridlock and disagreement."

Quite the opposite. Automakers passed the responsibility on to people who don't even drive.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#14

Post by paulryanrogers » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 6:17 PM UTC

jowea wrote: post #7

> A hundred years ago, if you were a pedestrian, crossing the street was simple: You walked across it. What about horses and carriages?

You looked both ways, and probably heard them coming even if not. You didn't get a ticket for not walking to the block corner.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#15

Post by stuaxo » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 6:18 PM UTC

nerdjon wrote: post #12

I am all for a pedestrian focused city, BUT cars will likely never fully disappear for emergencies, shipments, and people with disabilities. In this particular situation I feel like while the Automakers had ulterior motives it was ultimately a net good. Pretty sure we know who will win in in a car vs a human body. Also as much as I do believe in pedestrian focused cities, that isn't the norm in the US and likely will…

In other places cars are supposed to stop for pedestrians even on non crossings, in practice the penalties for hitting and killing them are way lower than killing a person in another situation.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#16

Post by stuaxo » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 6:20 PM UTC

sparrish wrote: post #3

To protect pedestrians... oh, those evil automakers.

In other countries we manage without this.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#17

Post by sandworm101 » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 6:20 PM UTC

Fricken wrote: post #13

akira2501 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rephrasing the headline for honesty: "Automakers accept the responsibility for the thing they've created and attempt to improve safety outcomes in a patchwork regulatory environment dominated by gridlock and disagreement."

Quite the opposite. Automakers passed the responsibility on to people who don't even drive.

Except for the speeding laws. And the red light/intersection/right-of-way laws. And the drunk driving laws. Those laws placed plenty of the responsibility on drivers.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#18

Post by nerdjon » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 6:22 PM UTC

stuaxo wrote: post #15

nerdjon wrote: post #12

I am all for a pedestrian focused city, BUT cars will likely never fully disappear for emergencies, shipments, and people with disabilities. In this particular situation I feel like while the Automakers had ulterior motives it was ultimately a net good. Pretty sure we know who will win in in a car vs a human body. Also as much as I do believe in pedestrian focused cities, that isn't the norm in the US and likely will…

In other places cars are supposed to stop for pedestrians even on non crossings, in practice the penalties for hitting and killing them are way lower than killing a person in another situation.

Pedestrians should also take responsibility for acting dangerously.

To me it's the same if a driver cuts in front of me and then slams on their brakes, there was nothing I could have done about crashing into them no matter how safely I was driving.

If a person runs in front of a moving vehicle it shouldn't be the driver responsible if they basically cut the car off. A car can't stop on a dime.

Drivers should be held responsible if they were clearly driving in an unsafe manner, but we have the share the space somehow.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#19

Post by leptons » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 6:23 PM UTC

stronglikedan wrote: post #4

And thank goodness someone did. Although, my boss getting ticketed for walking across an empty downtown LA street just shows it's still ripe for abuse. And the most ironic part was the cop running his car up onto the sidewalk to jump out and write the ticket.

California has a new jaywalking law

https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/local/californias-new-2023...

"Starting Jan. 1, the Freedom to Walk Act officially becomes law, allowing pedestrians in California to jaywalk without fear of a ticket, as long as it's safe."

Also, most people including police misunderstand how jaywalking works, or is intended to work. Nobody should be expected to walk a mile out of their way simply because that is where the only crosswalk is. Jaywalking is technically only possible near a crosswalk, so if the pedestrian was near a crosswalk but didn't use it, then that would be jaywalking. If the pedestrian is say half a mile from the nearest crosswalk, they are free to cross so long as they yield to oncoming traffic and don't cross dangerously.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#20

Post by csswizardry » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 6:23 PM UTC

As a Brit, ‘jaywalking’ is so alien to me. I once jaywalked in front of a police car who stopped and waved/signalled me across the road! Whenever I’m overseas, crossing anywhere when the road is clear is second nature to me and I have to remind myself not to. Conversely, you can always spot a foreigner in the UK: they’re the ones waiting for the signal at a deserted crossing at 2am.