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Schools for children of military achieve results rarely seen in public education

nytimes.com

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Re: Schools for children of military achieve results rarely seen in public education

#31

Post by colechristensen »

parineum wrote: post #26
colechristensen wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is: what do you do about children with discipline problems whose parents don't care? By all accounts, there are many of these kids. A portion of them are special needs and they at least have a path for what people want to do with them, even if special education doesn't have all the resources they need... there's at least an answer to "what should we do?". But what should we do with the rest?

> But what should we do with the rest? The answer to that question is _something_ but I think the real question is "who is 'we'?"

Children's public education is an _everybody_ problem. How these bulk problems are handled is something everybody should agree on instead of acting like it's somebody else's problem.

Re: Schools for children of military achieve results rarely seen in public education

#32

Post by willcipriano »

Spinnaker_ wrote: post #8

I think this can be misleading in the same way some charter school results are. The easiest way to improve a school's results isn't to improve the education provided, it's to get rid of the worst performing kids. Charter schools do this by various selection effects, and artificial barriers, like ending at noon on a Wednesday. So the only kids who go there have two parents, one who probably is stay at home and can pic…

Military households and the dependas that inhabit them aren't the stable footing you are imagining. The worst marriage stories I've heard happen under those circumstances.

Re: Schools for children of military achieve results rarely seen in public education

#34

Post by black6 »

parineum wrote: post #26
colechristensen wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is: what do you do about children with discipline problems whose parents don't care? By all accounts, there are many of these kids. A portion of them are special needs and they at least have a path for what people want to do with them, even if special education doesn't have all the resources they need... there's at least an answer to "what should we do?". But what should we do with the rest?

> But what should we do with the rest? The answer to that question is _something_ but I think the real question is "who is 'we'?"

The parents. Offloading the responsibility of raising children is a large part of the problem.

Re: Schools for children of military achieve results rarely seen in public education

#35

Post by Spinnaker_ »

ethbr1 wrote: post #24
Spinnaker_ wrote: post #8

I think this can be misleading in the same way some charter school results are. The easiest way to improve a school's results isn't to improve the education provided, it's to get rid of the worst performing kids. Charter schools do this by various selection effects, and artificial barriers, like ending at noon on a Wednesday. So the only kids who go there have two parents, one who probably is stay at home and can pic…

From the article, >> But there are key differences. For starters, families have access to housing and health care through the military, and at least one parent has a job. >> “Having as many of those basic needs met does help set the scene for learning to occur,” said Jessica Thorne, the principal at E.A. White Elementary, a school of about 350 students.

From my comment,

>> don't take it seriously enough.

A serious comparison would be to schools in fairly well off neighbourhoods in the suburbs. But they don't do that.

Re: Schools for children of military achieve results rarely seen in public education

#36

Post by ethbr1 »

Eumenes wrote: post #28

The NYT is an apparatus of the intelligence agencies, and coincidentally military recruitment is down ... this is subliminal advertisement for recruitment. Coupled with war in Ukraine and incoming war in the Middle east, in addition to new recruiting tactics ( https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/10/03/army-unveils-... ), expect to see alot more praise of the DoD/Military in MSM outlets like the NYT.

It wouldn't be subliminal. It would be a blatant advertisement.

Are you suggesting the NYT and/or military school system are fabricating achievement results?

Re: Schools for children of military achieve results rarely seen in public education

#37

Post by Spinnaker_ »

willcipriano wrote: post #32
Spinnaker_ wrote: post #8

I think this can be misleading in the same way some charter school results are. The easiest way to improve a school's results isn't to improve the education provided, it's to get rid of the worst performing kids. Charter schools do this by various selection effects, and artificial barriers, like ending at noon on a Wednesday. So the only kids who go there have two parents, one who probably is stay at home and can pic…

Military households and the dependas that inhabit them aren't the stable footing you are imagining. The worst marriage stories I've heard happen under those circumstances.

There are many schools where over 70% of kids live in single parents households. I'm sure you have bad stories, but it's not comparable overall.

Re: Schools for children of military achieve results rarely seen in public education

#38

Post by anarticle »

DoD schools person here, a major point left out of this article is that if you do something bad enough in school your parent's CO will be notified and this can have real career results. In a foreign country you can get deported if you do something stupid enough to warrant it.

I went to several DoD and civilian schools, NC (dod), NJ (civ), Erie PA (civ), Okinawa (dod), NJ (civ). I would say the standards are higher in DoD, mostly because of standardized curriculum. In civilian world, the variance is very high. In South NJ things were more rigid, in Erie more lax.

As for "not having social groups" this can be a plus, looking at my civilian counterparts in high school. It has pluses and minuses, but being an outgroup in high school let me leave that stuff behind much easier on my way to college. It makes me an alien to most of civilian world, but many benefits.

Housing is provided in the military.

AMA. I am anecdotal, but I have seen both sides at all three levels split down the middle.

Edit: I definitely received an education way above my parents earning level, I am first to go to college in my family. I went to a very good engineering school.

Re: Schools for children of military achieve results rarely seen in public education

#39

Post by seanmcdirmid »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #17
Spinnaker_ wrote: post #8

I think this can be misleading in the same way some charter school results are. The easiest way to improve a school's results isn't to improve the education provided, it's to get rid of the worst performing kids. Charter schools do this by various selection effects, and artificial barriers, like ending at noon on a Wednesday. So the only kids who go there have two parents, one who probably is stay at home and can pic…

Education is mostly about your peers. It's obviously true for prestigious universities but it's just as true for elementary schools. Charter schools kicking out problematic students isn't some loophole, it's the main point, and it absolutely can improve the education for those that remain. My district has a quarter of high schoolers in charter schools. Almost all of them under the poverty line. It's not like they're…

> Charter schools kicking out problematic students isn't some loophole, it's the main point, and it absolutely can improve the education for those that remain.

If you kick out the problematic students, the only students you have left are easy to teach non-problematic students.

> and it absolutely can improve the education for those that remain.

It isn't mysterious: you selected the best students, so your results will be the best. It is a direct application of selection bias. Public schools will be left with whatever students are not accepted into charter schools...those "problematic students", and will...again...due to selection bias have worse results.

> It's not like they're only accepting kids with two parents, in fact they're doing a much better job of helping poor families in my district than the public school system

That's great for your district, but parent pointed out ending school at noon on Wednesday are going to apply selection bias. Perhaps your district does it better.

Re: Schools for children of military achieve results rarely seen in public education

#40

Post by abtinf »

Spinnaker_ wrote: post #8

I think this can be misleading in the same way some charter school results are. The easiest way to improve a school's results isn't to improve the education provided, it's to get rid of the worst performing kids. Charter schools do this by various selection effects, and artificial barriers, like ending at noon on a Wednesday. So the only kids who go there have two parents, one who probably is stay at home and can pic…

> Charter schools do this by various selection effects, and artificial barriers, like ending at noon on a Wednesday.

You clearly have not had the pleasure of experiencing typical public schools in Washington state.

The schedules seemed designed to maximize hostility toward working parents. Inconsistent start and end times through the week, weird half days every week or every other week, and numerous random non-holiday off days throughout the year.

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