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Awareness at Death

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Re: Awareness at Death

#141

Post by ericmay »

bumby wrote: post #138
taberiand wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I state it matter-of-factly because I believe the idea of it being supernatural lacks evidence of any sort; there's no reason at all to make that hypothesis in the first place. I feel like the studies (or at least the reporting of the studies) come at the question from the wrong direction - the hypothesis should be that all of these experiences have explanations grounded in the function of the brain and body, because…

I understand your point. And if you also want to take a strictly materialistic worldview, there’s nothing wrong with it. But what’s strange to me is when people take such a hard line in one area but don’t apply the same logic to another. Would you, for example, extend that same logic to claim your loved ones are philosophical zombies incapable of subjective experience? After all, there’s no good proof of the hard pro…

Better yet, consciousness as you’re describing it here is most likely an illusory artifact and evolutionary adaptation, particularly useful for survival and group cooperation. I wouldn’t be so quick to assume about the OP.

With that being said I think it’s fair to suggest we can’t prove that others are conscious but we can do a lot more here with science than we can with the alleged afterlife.

Re: Awareness at Death

#142

Post by [deleted] »

lawlessone wrote: post #69
swayvil wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aleister Crowley offered a technique for remembering past lives. When you find yourself half asleep, and that dreamy fuzzy place, try to remember back as far as you can. With practice you'll remember further and further back. And eventually you'll remember before the time of your birth. Past lives and such

This feels almost analogous to asking an LLM to name the 55th president of the united states.

[deleted]

Re: Awareness at Death

#143

Post by chris_acd »

What the result indicate is that a) they did not see the tablet screen in the “state of outer body” (why would they?) b) did not hear sounds through their physical ears

Re: Awareness at Death

#144

Post by doctorhandshake »

myheadasplode wrote: post #96
doctorhandshake wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you say more about how advaita / nonduality are related to this? Still struggling to get my head around those ideas.

Me too, my friend (although a hardcore nonduality person would say you don't get your head around the ideas so much as experience them directly). This is all anecdotal but a lot of NDE/OOB experiencers describe feelings of oneness and a singular connection with all matter and beings that they gain upon "leaving" the body and lose upon re-entering it. A lot of modern day non-dual seekers similarly describe their locus…

Wild stuff!

Re: Awareness at Death

#145

Post by hydrok9 »

Liquix wrote: post #93
mike_hock wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting that the neuroprotective chemicals also happen to result in a pleasant feeling, as there would have been no evolutionary pressure whatsoever to make a physiological state that's almost exclusively experienced just before death feel like anything in particular. Anything from bliss to agonizing pain to nothing would have been equally viable.

In fact there may be an evolutionary advantage in doing the opposite - flooding the system with stress/fear chemicals at the time of death. Predators would likely prefer to avoid tense, stringy meat reeking of primal panic and feces.

Doubtful, given the amount of large predators that eat carrion and prey on sick and weak individuals in a herd.

Re: Awareness at Death

#146

Post by wutwutwat »

generalizations wrote: post #57
MPSimmons wrote: post #40

In January, 2022, I experienced a 100% blockage of my Left Anterior Descending artery (a "widowmaker" heart attack), and I experienced cardiac arrest for a minute or two while on the exam table in a local emergency room. CPR was administered, and I was shocked back into rhythm, whereupon I regained consciousness immediately. During the time I was dead, I have a memory. It is a singular experience of non-existence. Ev…

Did you experience brain death? Because that kinda sounds like the sensation of losing all contact with the peripheral nervous system, without actually losing consciousness.

If they had experience brain death they wouldn’t be here talking to you.

> Death is the permanent end of all biological functions that sustain a living organism. It is no longer defined as the cessation of heartbeat (cardiac arrest) and breathing, as CPR and prompt defibrillation can sometimes restart both. In modern medicine, when a definition of the moment of death is required, doctors and coroners usually turn to "brain death" or "biological death" to define a person as being dead; brain death being defined as the complete and irreversible loss of brain function (including involuntary activity necessary to sustain life).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness_after_death#Deat...

TL;DR - you don’t come back from actual death, or you didn’t actually die. There’s no coming back from all biological function ending.

Re: Awareness at Death

#147

Post by inglor_cz »

aradox66 wrote: post #30
mike_hock wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> book mentions other cases where patients were indeed able to describe imagery they wouldn't have otherwise been able to observe Quite an extraordinary claim, any evidence of this?

The Parnia study is the most systematic effort to date to establish highly rigorous evidence for this phenomenon.

One of the problems with the study is the expectation that the patient, in their hypothetically discarnate state, will pay any attention to the tablet, which is just one of many artifacts in the room.

I certainly don't pay attention to many such details in mundane life. I just made myself a cup of tea and put the cup onto my nightstand, but without looking, I cannot tell you which cup I chose and how is it decorated. I was distracted by something else when preparing it.

And dying people are probably more distracted than people who make tea. Most people who describe their NDEs in hospitals tend to concentrate their narration on other people, e.g. the team trying to resuscitate them.

Plus the headphone audio setup seems extra wrong to me. If you want to test hearing abilities of people who claim that they are outside their bodies, why use a device that sits on their ears?

Re: Awareness at Death

#148

Post by inglor_cz »

maushu wrote: post #119
dilawar wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No wonder most if not all religions deny death but promising afterlife or via some other ideas.

It's much easier that way to make people self sacrifice for the religion, gives a meaning to their life and pacifies their fear of death.

Plenty of religions don't demand self sacrifice from their adherents. Polytheist and animist creeds are very different from the Abrahamic faiths that we tend to think of when we speak about religion.

For example, the Tlingit in Alaska believe in reincarnation, but in their tribal way of life, there really isn't any compelling "use" (in the Machiavellistic sense) for that belief.

Re: Awareness at Death

#149

Post by rnk »

ddj231 wrote: post #122
7thaccount wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My father is in pretty good shape (very active), but also very religious these days and he's basically told me nothing in this life matters and he's ready for the afterlife which he believes will be a paradise. The Sagan quote is ironic as he was a huge fan as a younger man. It's always saddened me that he has trouble focusing on the joys in this life. There's a lot to be grateful for, for those of us lucky enough to…

There is no evidence of Sagan’s theory though, that in death we will be in a long dreamless sleep. In fact, I would argue that the beauties of this life (suggested in his quote) point to an afterlife. To say that our experience here has much love and moral depth, leads one to ponder, why is there anything at all? And on top of that, why do morals and love exist? And why are these things good? The Christian perspectiv…

Actually I think we have evidence there isn't any existence after death. Many religions claims various different things. Does everyone just get their own wish fulfillment? Probably not.

There are various random claims of proof of something happening after death, contradictory and with no real evidence. When there's no evidence, and people make very contradictory claims while claiming absolute evidence but having now, .... it's probable that there's nothing happening. I'd like to imagine my deceased loved ones are still around somewhere, but I don't think they are.

Re: Awareness at Death

#150

Post by archibaldJ »

perfmode wrote: post #72

If I am about to die, and you repeat apple, pear, banana in my ears in headphones, I will haunt you from the afterlife.

As funny as this is, there is something trippy in what you said.

Actually this is why LSD is so important - it helps you better recognise the voices repeating apple, pear, banana in your everyday life

we are all always about to die:

1. everyday billions of your cells die and are dying

2. death is the single most real/important matter in life, and about to or not really only depends on how relativistic you want to be

3. can always swiftly get real because you never know when your last day is

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