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Awareness at Death

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Re: Awareness at Death

#131

Post by Zee38484 »

clnq wrote: post #130
Zee38484 wrote: post #29

> As patients underwent CPR, a tablet computer displayed one of ten visual images > During 5 minutes of the CPR, patients also were repeatedly exposed through the headphone audio to the names of 3 fruits I think this type of experiment could be harmful to patients. Human brain consumes oxygen at varied rate. It consumes more oxygen under stress. Natural body reaction is to pass out, to preserve limited oxygen reserve…

It’s not enough to make a tangible difference. CPR isn’t close to ideal blood flow, and resuscitation generally fails. Movies paint a picture that it almost always succeeds, but it is closer to the opposite. Then, it’s possible to argue that whether the patient hears resuscitation being done to them or fruit names doesn’t matter much. In the end, the depth of chest compressions in CPR in millimeters probably has a bi…

[dead]

Re: Awareness at Death

#132

Post by bracketslash »

ddj231 wrote: post #122
7thaccount wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My father is in pretty good shape (very active), but also very religious these days and he's basically told me nothing in this life matters and he's ready for the afterlife which he believes will be a paradise. The Sagan quote is ironic as he was a huge fan as a younger man. It's always saddened me that he has trouble focusing on the joys in this life. There's a lot to be grateful for, for those of us lucky enough to…

There is no evidence of Sagan’s theory though, that in death we will be in a long dreamless sleep. In fact, I would argue that the beauties of this life (suggested in his quote) point to an afterlife. To say that our experience here has much love and moral depth, leads one to ponder, why is there anything at all? And on top of that, why do morals and love exist? And why are these things good? The Christian perspectiv…

The question of “why” could be a human construct. There doesn’t have to be a “why”.

Re: Awareness at Death

#133

Post by xysg »

I haven't been near death, even though I was previously involved in a serious motorcycle accident (I was a pillion rider) as a kid, where I completely blanked out. Don't have any memories of the actual accident at all.

What I want to say however is that anyone who wants to make conclusions regarding whether there's life after death cannot do so without invoking the spiritual realm as well.

I've personally had a spiritual encounter whereby the holy spirit entered my body (I could actually sense the lifting of my skin in my chest and His entry into me). That experience changed my life forever.

The point I'm trying to make I guess is that there are many things about this so-called life that we still don't know about, in particular the dimensions we can't see and which science refutes because they can't be tested.

Perhaps that's why religion is often about having faith?

Re: Awareness at Death

#134

Post by MPSimmons »

interfixus wrote: post #124
MPSimmons wrote: post #40

In January, 2022, I experienced a 100% blockage of my Left Anterior Descending artery (a "widowmaker" heart attack), and I experienced cardiac arrest for a minute or two while on the exam table in a local emergency room. CPR was administered, and I was shocked back into rhythm, whereupon I regained consciousness immediately. During the time I was dead, I have a memory. It is a singular experience of non-existence. Ev…

> During the time I was dead Semantic correction for this and all similar recollections: You are alive to tell the story, so you were, in fact, not dead.

I got better. ;-)

Re: Awareness at Death

#135

Post by ericmay »

BagelGuy wrote: post #87
ericmay wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also wouldn’t the real test be to turn the tablet upward so that it shows various images and if you really are floating above everyone and looking down you’d be able to see it?

It was pointing upwards

Oh sorry I must have misread! Thanks

Re: Awareness at Death

#136

Post by DougN7 »

verteu wrote: post #25
DougN7 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I experienced the “life flashing before my eyes” once. It was a situation where I thought I was about to die. It was like a very high speed real of all my memories playing. I was amazed (while it was happening) that it was happening just like I’d heard about - so at least in my opinion it wasn’t an invented memory later. Of course I might say that even it was. My theory is the mind was desperately trying to find a si…

Amazing -- could you describe it a bit more?

Well, I was with someone who had threatened to kill me, and I took that threat very seriously, as it was also made very seriously. It was sort of watching a film that was doing fast forward through my life. I could see it playing in front of me. I guess the room was there in the background. The whole thing took place in about 5 seconds, and my background thought (besides being concerned about dying) was just sort of “huh, so this really happens”. The person then showed that they weren’t going to kill me, but explained how they had been planning it earlier in the day. I never visited that person again.

Re: Awareness at Death

#137

Post by 7thaccount »

ddj231 wrote: post #122
7thaccount wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My father is in pretty good shape (very active), but also very religious these days and he's basically told me nothing in this life matters and he's ready for the afterlife which he believes will be a paradise. The Sagan quote is ironic as he was a huge fan as a younger man. It's always saddened me that he has trouble focusing on the joys in this life. There's a lot to be grateful for, for those of us lucky enough to…

There is no evidence of Sagan’s theory though, that in death we will be in a long dreamless sleep. In fact, I would argue that the beauties of this life (suggested in his quote) point to an afterlife. To say that our experience here has much love and moral depth, leads one to ponder, why is there anything at all? And on top of that, why do morals and love exist? And why are these things good? The Christian perspectiv…

We simply don't know anything about what occurs after death.

It's possible that there is nothing (the dreamless sleep was just Sagan being poetic I would guess). It's also possible one or more of the many religions are correct.

Re: Awareness at Death

#138

Post by bumby »

taberiand wrote: post #120
bumby wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the same conclusions as you, but don't have the confidence to state them so matter-of-factly. There seems a rather large amount of room for "we don't know." And, given that it may not be a testable hypothesis and thus outside the realm of science, there's even room for "we may never know." And before people get in a huff, the same generally goes for the hard problem of consciousness, yet we generally don't go…

I state it matter-of-factly because I believe the idea of it being supernatural lacks evidence of any sort; there's no reason at all to make that hypothesis in the first place. I feel like the studies (or at least the reporting of the studies) come at the question from the wrong direction - the hypothesis should be that all of these experiences have explanations grounded in the function of the brain and body, because…

I understand your point. And if you also want to take a strictly materialistic worldview, there’s nothing wrong with it. But what’s strange to me is when people take such a hard line in one area but don’t apply the same logic to another. Would you, for example, extend that same logic to claim your loved ones are philosophical zombies incapable of subjective experience? After all, there’s no good proof of the hard problem of consciousness and it’s likely an untestable claim as well. If you reply with “yes, but…” all it really means is you are either cherry picking where to apply the logic or you recognize there are limits to what science can test/prove and there may be elements outside that domain.

Re: Awareness at Death

#139

Post by sbjs »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #66
sbjs wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a logical fallacy to say that a common experience is the only experience, and that fear therefore should be lessened. Perhaps the fear is there for good reason, and perhaps there is a soul and there is moral judgment at death and perhaps our moral character is sealed in stone at death, whether good or bad. Can't rule these out because lots of NDEs say it's a peaceful experience.

Are you familiar with Russell’s teapot? I question why such horrors were claimed in the first place

The burden of proof has already been sufficiently provided by Christianity. Just because many people don't accept it doesn't mean it's not acceptable.

Re: Awareness at Death

#140

Post by gehwartzen »

You came out of nothing and you return to nothing.

Think about the last 13.8 billion years of your existence. Death is merely returning to that place. Was it uncomfortable or scary for “you” during those 13.8 billion years. Probably not. The “you” that has the capacity for worry, sadness, joy, etc. won’t exist after death.

And perhaps a new “you” will pop into existence out of nothing just as it did before. Or maybe not.

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