It feels one-dimensional to assess someone on what they said or did once in some context & make big assumptions about them for the rest of their lives based off a narrowly interpreted negative viewpoint. People are complex and reducing responses to brutal cruel unforgiving blacklists is the shit of nightmares.
Harvard student groups issued anti-Israel statement, CEOs want them blacklisted
31–40 of 88 posts
Re: Harvard student groups issued anti-Israel statement, CEOs want them blacklisted
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Say what you will about them voicing a poorly informed opinion if you must how do you differentiate between poorly informed opinions and poorly formed morals ? (in this specific case poorly informed opinion (if this is what it is) may lead to offer been revoked due to inability to perform research. sounds like a must for a law firm)
> in this specific case poorly informed opinion... It's hard to not see the IDF as a barbarous relic of it's own collective trauma from the Holocaust at this point; I personally think they are just as appalling as the German Nazis themselves and the US enables and funds this for Geo-political strategy: I believe in free speech and feel that I can make this argument without impunity as it's based entirely from decades…
the funny part, that you wrote a very long post that tries to be "nuanced", yet, you are missing so many nuances and facts that it's not too different from average headline of "israel performs genocide"
i just saw fascinating thread on /r/politics when somebody, obviously arab, from one of the poorer countries probably tried to explain to other people what is middle east and how it clicks. he was blamed for trying to gaslight and writing funfiction.
unless you live this world day to day, from inside, i am not sure if you can form an informed opinion because so many things are lost. so many nuances. so many day-to-day facts that even if they will appear in western media they will loose in process most of facts. even on freaken wikipedia list of terror acts in city where i lived misses like half of them. including the one on bus stop next to my school which served only kids.
i am not going to argue with you or try to point on all the things that you missed in your well thought out post. i did enough of it on kuro5hin. i mostly healed of "somebody is wrong on the internet".
time to concentrate on not crying for people on both side of conflict, for sake of my ukrainian wife. she had enough of crying of her own in last 2 years
c'ya
Re: Harvard student groups issued anti-Israel statement, CEOs want them blacklisted
#33Playboy fired pornstar Mia Kalifa for supporting hamas actions. Could you please help me understand, if this is cancel culture or moral backbone of USA ?
Just simple action & reaction.
Re: Harvard student groups issued anti-Israel statement, CEOs want them blacklisted
#34Re: Harvard student groups issued anti-Israel statement, CEOs want them blacklisted
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
> in this specific case poorly informed opinion... It's hard to not see the IDF as a barbarous relic of it's own collective trauma from the Holocaust at this point; I personally think they are just as appalling as the German Nazis themselves and the US enables and funds this for Geo-political strategy: I believe in free speech and feel that I can make this argument without impunity as it's based entirely from decades…
the funny part, that you wrote a very long post that tries to be "nuanced", yet, you are missing so many nuances and facts that it's not too different from average headline of "israel performs genocide" i just saw fascinating thread on /r/politics when somebody, obviously arab, from one of the poorer countries probably tried to explain to other people what is middle east and how it clicks. he was blamed for trying to…
Everybody has their own gaze with which they judge what they see.
As someone who has been following world politics since young age and really would love to see this seemingly everlasting conflict resolved and human suffering on all sides reduced, my prefered solution would be one where the Palestinians are alive, free and lost all incentives to carry out terrorist attacks so that both sides in this conflict can finally attempt to embrace what they have in common instead of fighting each other.
My worry is that this is not something a big part of Israel even wants to attempt — or maybe they lost the faith that this could ever be possible — so they want the Palestinians to just be gone.
The problem with wanting a group of people to "just be gone" is that there is no ethical, no clean way of doing it and the act of even attempting it would produce new problems of unspeakable proportions.
If you talk about the small things, the terrorist attacks that didn't make it to wikipedia, I am sure your Palestinian counterpart would talk about similar things from their daily lives that make living hell for them or collective punishment they received just for being part of a certain ethnic group. You might mention a relative that got killed in a terrorist attack, they might mention a relative that got killed in a raid that happened before or after.
And both of you are of course right and anybody not from the region (like me) would have a hard time to make something of that competition of suffering. But I don't think that this competition is going to solve anything and winning it isn't worth it.
Without having people on both sides rising above and extending an olive branch this won't end well. Granted, it still might end, but I don't feel well to see the people who had to experience the unspeakable horrors of the Holocaust to solve their problems in a way that results in a group of other people "being gone". This would remain a stain on Israel forever, just like the Holocaust should remain a stain on Austria and Germany forever.
Re: Harvard student groups issued anti-Israel statement, CEOs want them blacklisted
#36Re: Harvard student groups issued anti-Israel statement, CEOs want them blacklisted
#37I find that the many of the collective western reaction to this recent events is no different from some the reaction of russians against people opposing the war in Ukraine. In Germany police will harras/arrest you if you are wearing Palestinian flag even before this events. They even ban any try to organize any event in nakba (anniversary of Palestinians losing their land) [1] There is a suggestion to the English pol…
> The Isreali defence minister is literally using a language that was used during previous genocidal events. He literally said thet they are in a fight with "human animals" [4]
Any idea why he would say that?
Re: Harvard student groups issued anti-Israel statement, CEOs want them blacklisted
#38I see stuff like this, and the first place my mind goes isn't to the antisemitism (it really never dies), or student-run organizations saying dumb things (again, not surprising). The first place my mind goes, is... does Harvard not teach history classes?
I want to seriously question what you mean by "History". The history I understand places blame on the British Empire and the neo Israeli State. My understanding of this situation is that terrorism is initiated by Islamic jihadists. The environment that allows those jihadists to thrive is created by Israel. The Gaza strip, is the poster child of how to create an adversarial environment that breeds terrorism.
this guy is listening to chapo
Re: Harvard student groups issued anti-Israel statement, CEOs want them blacklisted
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
the funny part, that you wrote a very long post that tries to be "nuanced", yet, you are missing so many nuances and facts that it's not too different from average headline of "israel performs genocide" i just saw fascinating thread on /r/politics when somebody, obviously arab, from one of the poorer countries probably tried to explain to other people what is middle east and how it clicks. he was blamed for trying to…
Everybody has their own gaze with which they judge what they see. As someone who has been following world politics since young age and really would love to see this seemingly everlasting conflict resolved and human suffering on all sides reduced, my prefered solution would be one where the Palestinians are alive, free and lost all incentives to carry out terrorist attacks so that both sides in this conflict can final…
>My worry is that this is not something a big part of Israel even wants to attempt — or maybe they lost the faith that this could ever be possible — so they want the Palestinians to just be gone
you are kind wrong. majority of population realists. everybody knows that palestinians don't go anywhere. there are no majority opinion in favor of "genociding" palestinians. majority of population was excited to hear news about potential normalization with saudia and that this process may also force some kind of normalization of palestinian authority. i don't even know what you mean by "group of other people been gone", because it's most definitely not mainstream in israel. and not near mainstream. it's fringe position in israeli society
people are tiered in israel. people want for all this to be over. people want normalization with pa. with lebanon. not sure about syria though.
>I am sure your Palestinian counterpart would talk about similar things from their daily lives that make living hell for them or collective punishment they received just for being part of a certain ethnic group
everything that happens anywhere tend to be widely publicized. "collective punishment" is a good way to take very complicated situation that developed over last 100 years and reduce is to two words. kudos
and my points wasn't about competition of suffering. my point was that if you don't live there you don't really get to understand where people on both sides stand and what exactly happens because press doesn't really cover it to depth
Re: Harvard student groups issued anti-Israel statement, CEOs want them blacklisted
#40Playboy fired pornstar Mia Kalifa for supporting hamas actions. Could you please help me understand, if this is cancel culture or moral backbone of USA ?
'cancel culture' either doesn't exist, or is a new means of explaining an old phenomenon, depending on what you mean. I honestly immediately loose respect for anyone using it non-ironically, because it's just an obvious ploy to manipulate public opinion.