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It’s time to allow researchers to submit manuscripts to multiple journals

nature.com

11–20 of 126 posts

Re: It’s time to allow researchers to submit manuscripts to multiple journals

#11
post #7

Computer Science's conventions solve these problems (although CS certainly has other problems): * papers are generally posted to arxiv.org immediately on being finished, so everyone can access them * conferences have fixed deadlines and relatively short, fixed/enforced review cycles

Also, publicly available reviews and comments at openreview.net.

Re: It’s time to allow researchers to submit manuscripts to multiple journals

#12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fraud is considered rare, and trust is fundamental. In which case, you choose to believe what they said they did and interrogate of what they said they did is reasonable. Nobody has the budget, time, and sometimes magical fingers required to reproduce every submission. You can disagree with this approach, but then there needs to be huge budgets set aside for reproduction.

Fraud is considered rare, but maybe not actually that rare; hence the replication crisis.

A lot of times it is not deliberate fraud just incompetence. There is the strange fact that the answer to precision QED calculations alway seemed to change when experimental results changed. One enduring lesson from a physics PhD is that a 50 page long calculation without unit tests is… wrong.

Re: It’s time to allow researchers to submit manuscripts to multiple journals

#13

Peer review is a joke. Peer reviewers don’t look at your data and the programs you used to analyze it. They don’t look at your experimental apparatus, they don’t repeat your experiment, they don’t talk to the subjects you interviewed, at best they can spot obvious “red flags”. (Of course, in 2023 you should be able to publish your data and all your software with the paper.)

Reminds me of code reviews, where sometimes a reviewer will go on a deep dive but usually they just scan it for obvious issues and typos. The thing is, even if my code is only getting a cursory review, I still prefer to have multiple people review it to increase the chances that obvious issues are caught. At least if it's important code.

Re: It’s time to allow researchers to submit manuscripts to multiple journals

#14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fraud is considered rare, and trust is fundamental. In which case, you choose to believe what they said they did and interrogate of what they said they did is reasonable. Nobody has the budget, time, and sometimes magical fingers required to reproduce every submission. You can disagree with this approach, but then there needs to be huge budgets set aside for reproduction.

Fraud is considered rare, but maybe not actually that rare; hence the replication crisis.

Misrepresentation of data and selective reporting to fit particular agendas of the last author are quite common. I have been involved in a couple of projects where I was asked to misrepresent or misreport findings.

Sadly, integrity offices will rarely conduct serious investigations, and won't conclude misconduct happened unless what was done was incredibly harmful. Professors are often too big to fail, they attract tons of grants and are politically entrenched.

Re: It’s time to allow researchers to submit manuscripts to multiple journals

#15
post #7

Computer Science's conventions solve these problems (although CS certainly has other problems): * papers are generally posted to arxiv.org immediately on being finished, so everyone can access them * conferences have fixed deadlines and relatively short, fixed/enforced review cycles

Let's distinguish between papers and preprints, please. arXiv has contributed to a blurring of the distinction. The arXiv preprints are useful but should always be taken with a grain of salt. There is nearly no filtering done on things uploaded to arXiv.

Everyone accessing someone's uncritically reviewed work is a bittersweet gift.

Re: It’s time to allow researchers to submit manuscripts to multiple journals

#16
post #6

The best way to allow multiple submissions while amortizing the review work is to make reviews (and rebuttals) public, and overlay them on submissions made public on some preprint server. This establishes priority (if credit is a concern), can be made blind / double-blind if so desired, and also makes public the reviews (which are as much a public service as writing research papers). Which editorial boards “accept” t…

With a few minor changes, eLife is a non-profit journal that has that kind of peer review process: https://elifesciences.org/about/peer-review

It is quite well regarded now, they publish excellent research and the whole process is crystal clear.

Re: It’s time to allow researchers to submit manuscripts to multiple journals

#17

Peer review is a joke. Peer reviewers don’t look at your data and the programs you used to analyze it. They don’t look at your experimental apparatus, they don’t repeat your experiment, they don’t talk to the subjects you interviewed, at best they can spot obvious “red flags”. (Of course, in 2023 you should be able to publish your data and all your software with the paper.)

Some of the things that peer reviewers do, in my experience, in biology:

- question whether or not the conclusions you are making are supported by the data you are presenting

- ask for additional experiments

- evaluate whether or not your research is sufficiently novel and properly contextualized

- spotting obvious red flags - you seem to discount this, but it's quite valuable

In my experience, the process of peer review has been onerous, sometimes taking years of work and many experiments, and has by and large led to a better end-product. There are not so great aspects of peer review, but it's definitely not a joke as you characterize it.

I'll add that in biology and adjacent fields, it makes no sense to discount peer review because the reviewers do not repeat your experiment - doing so is simply not practical, and you don't have to stretch your imagination very far to understand why.

Re: It’s time to allow researchers to submit manuscripts to multiple journals

#19

Peer review is a joke. Peer reviewers don’t look at your data and the programs you used to analyze it. They don’t look at your experimental apparatus, they don’t repeat your experiment, they don’t talk to the subjects you interviewed, at best they can spot obvious “red flags”. (Of course, in 2023 you should be able to publish your data and all your software with the paper.)

Can Journals adopt a pull request review like process on some central server? I am imagining Github PR review like capability on arxiv where anyone or authorized people can review the submission and submitters can respond to comments, all publicly.

I don't if this is how it's done already. I have seen people complaining about peer review here and was wondering why there isn't a solution to that while software already enjoys a well established peer review system.

Re: It’s time to allow researchers to submit manuscripts to multiple journals

#20
post #7

Computer Science's conventions solve these problems (although CS certainly has other problems): * papers are generally posted to arxiv.org immediately on being finished, so everyone can access them * conferences have fixed deadlines and relatively short, fixed/enforced review cycles

Let's distinguish between papers and preprints, please. arXiv has contributed to a blurring of the distinction. The arXiv preprints are useful but should always be taken with a grain of salt. There is nearly no filtering done on things uploaded to arXiv. Everyone accessing someone's uncritically reviewed work is a bittersweet gift.

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