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Awareness at Death

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Re: Awareness at Death

#81

Post by MPSimmons »

mrtksn wrote: post #78
MPSimmons wrote: post #40

In January, 2022, I experienced a 100% blockage of my Left Anterior Descending artery (a "widowmaker" heart attack), and I experienced cardiac arrest for a minute or two while on the exam table in a local emergency room. CPR was administered, and I was shocked back into rhythm, whereupon I regained consciousness immediately. During the time I was dead, I have a memory. It is a singular experience of non-existence. Ev…

> During the time I was dead Thanks for sharing. Very interesting experience however, I don’t think that you were dead. IMHO, you were in a state where your brain was not functioning properly due to lack of blood flow or maybe external input. All death experiences seem to be something of that sort and I suspect if body transplant was a thing, the experience would have been similar. I think the correct description of…

I don't think I have grounds to argue against this take.

I think the definition of death changes over time as medical technology advances in its ability to return someone to "life".

Re: Awareness at Death

#82

Post by kokanee »

wessorh wrote: post #76

At the end of 2022 I caught Legionaries and arrived at the hospital with 48% O2 saturation and promptly slipped into a coma. Next came a trake and a respirator which was placed in a medically induced coma. I was unconscious for almost 2 months in the ER. I'd get CPR twice and once I awoke fully the head nurse came in and asked (once I could talk) how it was to meet Jesus. I didn't meet Jesus but I did hang with sever…

Thanks for sharing. When you read articles like the above, which suggest that those perceptions are hallucinations from oxygen starvation, how do you react?

Re: Awareness at Death

#83

Post by smolder »

303uru wrote: post #37
tasty_freeze wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously, I can't say what your teacher experienced. But think about this. His brain was going through a traumatic experience of some kind, presumably at least low oxygen and a accumulation of cellular waste products, such as CO2, due to lack of blood flow. After he was resuscitated, his now functioning brain was left to make narrative sense out of what it had experienced. How much of that was was after the fact rec…

The fact that we can induce out of body experiences with drugs that appear to exactly match lends credence to this idea.

I suspect that people are somehow predisposed to interpreting the result of failed memory formation by a brain-in-dire-straights as having looked upon themselves. It could be a quirk of how memory/congition works, or it could be cultural, even.

Re: Awareness at Death

#84

Post by throw1234651234 »

duncancarroll wrote: post #79

I've had a couple OBEs (as a result of meditation, not near-death), and they're very interesting, but I'm not surprised that Parnia's subjects weren't able to match up any images because I've never had an OBE where the objective world is completely accurate. It's odd because you'll be totally lucid, often more so than in waking life, but things are slightly off, and electronics in particular never seem to work. I've…

No real reason to believe OBEs are anything other LDs. As you said nothing lines up, so the whole "your soul / astral body / whatever is travelling" has no weight. Furthermore, LDs/OBEs seem to be subject to working memory overload. Try looking at a large distance in an OBE, it won't render.

Re: Awareness at Death

#85

Post by aradox66 »

mike_hock wrote: post #51
aradox66 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Parnia study is the most systematic effort to date to establish highly rigorous evidence for this phenomenon.

And as I understand the article, it has failed to do so. The near-death patients had no idea what the tablet was showing.

That's correct. (Granted, failure to demonstrate the phenomenon does not rule it out.)

Re: Awareness at Death

#86

Post by nativeit »

303uru wrote: post #37
tasty_freeze wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously, I can't say what your teacher experienced. But think about this. His brain was going through a traumatic experience of some kind, presumably at least low oxygen and a accumulation of cellular waste products, such as CO2, due to lack of blood flow. After he was resuscitated, his now functioning brain was left to make narrative sense out of what it had experienced. How much of that was was after the fact rec…

The fact that we can induce out of body experiences with drugs that appear to exactly match lends credence to this idea.

How could this possibly be measured empirically? I’m not suggesting you’re wrong, necessarily (I don’t know one way or another) but it stretches credulity to position such subjective experiences that lie well outside of experimental ethics a “fact”. Do you have any links to research that could push back on that intuition?

Re: Awareness at Death

#87

Post by BagelGuy »

ericmay wrote: post #52
jdthedisciple wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point being (as far as I understand) if, during the period tested for recall, the brain was dead, yet recall was successfull, it would challenge the brain-mind science (i.e. "no brain, no mind") IOW successful recall would highly suggest "out of body" experience / "mindfulness" despite lack of brain activity.

Also wouldn’t the real test be to turn the tablet upward so that it shows various images and if you really are floating above everyone and looking down you’d be able to see it?

It was pointing upwards

Re: Awareness at Death

#88

Post by nelblu »

MPSimmons wrote: post #40

In January, 2022, I experienced a 100% blockage of my Left Anterior Descending artery (a "widowmaker" heart attack), and I experienced cardiac arrest for a minute or two while on the exam table in a local emergency room. CPR was administered, and I was shocked back into rhythm, whereupon I regained consciousness immediately. During the time I was dead, I have a memory. It is a singular experience of non-existence. Ev…

I had similar experience where my heart stopped beating and went into complete darkness, apparently it was a reaction to something they were doing a tissue sample. Nonetheless the experience was very similar but I was only 14 then, so I didn't think much of life or death then.

Now almost 3 decades later, I really don't think that dying is what I'm most worried about, really I just don't want to die before my dog or my wife. That said, being quite influenced by stoicism I do remind myself that I could die any second and I always live such that I won't have any regrets if I die any minute. Memento Mori.

Re: Awareness at Death

#89

Post by Nextgrid »

just_1_comment wrote: post #64
MPSimmons wrote: post #40

In January, 2022, I experienced a 100% blockage of my Left Anterior Descending artery (a "widowmaker" heart attack), and I experienced cardiac arrest for a minute or two while on the exam table in a local emergency room. CPR was administered, and I was shocked back into rhythm, whereupon I regained consciousness immediately. During the time I was dead, I have a memory. It is a singular experience of non-existence. Ev…

I was present when someone else went through the same experience but they reacted slightly differently than you did…”Please don’t stop CPR! There’s nothing there! Whenever you stop and I die, it’s all black!” His last horrified words were “There’s nothing there!”

I wonder if this reaction was because his brain hasn't yet entered the stage where NDEs normally occur - ie. he was still somewhat conscious and expecting an NDE at this early stage where they don't yet occur?

Re: Awareness at Death

#90

Post by whatshisface »

MPSimmons wrote: post #81
mrtksn wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> During the time I was dead Thanks for sharing. Very interesting experience however, I don’t think that you were dead. IMHO, you were in a state where your brain was not functioning properly due to lack of blood flow or maybe external input. All death experiences seem to be something of that sort and I suspect if body transplant was a thing, the experience would have been similar. I think the correct description of…

I don't think I have grounds to argue against this take. I think the definition of death changes over time as medical technology advances in its ability to return someone to "life".

If your brain is working well enough to have thoughts about its experiences, I don't see how you could call that death when people whose brains are not working that well at all, are alive.
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