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Awareness at Death

community.macmillanlearning.com

31–40 of 180 posts

Re: Awareness at Death

#31
"It's like a labyrinth you can't see, innit? And by the time - heeheehee, by the time, heehee - by the time - you can see it, it's too late. There's no way out"[1]

The phrase "invisible labyrinth" describes perfectly the relationship of the self inside the complexity of the human brain. When the body tries, in drips and drops, to save the organism, parts of the resource-hungry labyrinth are taken apart like a travelling circus, to put those hands to more important work. But the circus is our mind, its sense of self is rendered by this disassembly, and then it senses no more.

Sometimes, though, returning to full consciousness, the mind is forced to fill in those existential gaps. We experience an extremely tiny simulacra of this phenomenon upon waking from deep sleep. What's really remarkable is that people tend to fill in the gaps[2] in extraordinarily similar ways. This is powerful but informal evidence that the mechanisms of consciousness might be paradoxically quite simple, perhaps nothing more than a consistent framework for the internal simulation of environments. Layer enough sims, you get an emergent evolutionary impulse to maintain internal narrative.

I'm no scientist - not even particularly clever by HN standards - but figuring this particular widget out will be the bridge to AGI. Multimodal corpus are steps in this direction, but corpus needs to be responsive for this to work.

It would be humorous, but not at all surprising, if human AGI requires both simulated sex and death. No free lunches, I suppose - you want the behavior, you have to pay these weird taxes. I believe that was Oscar Isaac's rationale for giving Eve sex stuff in Ex Machina, although it was hard to believe anything he said given that everything about his character made my skin try to crawl off my body.

[1] Apologies to "In the Walls", Book 5 of Providence by Alan Moore. Do you like H.P. Lovecraft? Do you like comic books? What are you doing reading the internet? Go read this. It's Moore's career best - I'll die on that hill - and Jacen Burrows is knocking it way way way out of the park, as well. The last book feels a little meh, an effort to tie together the other Mythos Trilogy books, which are inferior in every way. It could have done without it. But it's finding a streak of white in a perfect chocolate mousse.

[2] Barring damage, upon which the brain does REALLY crazy things to fill in the gaps. GPT4, on its best days, reminds me of talking with patients that have had some hippocampal-adjacent cerebral damage. But the human brain - and body! - has far, FAR more tricks than a text-trained 'net . .

Re: Awareness at Death

#33

The brain is a strange thing. Perception and experience is very difficult to wrap one's head around. I have fainted several times, for different reasons. Often in medical settings but also in other settings. Often when I wake up I am in a state where I feel like I’ve been gone for hours, it feels like I’ve been basically dreaming the equivalent of a full length movie, when in reality I’ve been out for maybe a minute.…

It's not necessary to have an experience that lasts hours in order to have a memory of an experience that lasted hours, even less necessary if it's just the feeling of an experience that lasted hours. Our memory is highly fallible and easily manipulated, at least compared to how much people tend to believe it's a flawless record of the past. All memories exist in the present, a memory created a minute ago about an ex…

I have the same conclusions as you, but don't have the confidence to state them so matter-of-factly. There seems a rather large amount of room for "we don't know." And, given that it may not be a testable hypothesis and thus outside the realm of science, there's even room for "we may never know."

And before people get in a huff, the same generally goes for the hard problem of consciousness, yet we generally don't go around doubting that others have subjective experience.

Re: Awareness at Death

#34

I had an English teacher in high school who had a near death experience during a surgery. His description of the experience tracks with what's in the article - floating above the body, a tremendous feeling of peace and acceptance, and the feeling of being drawn towards a bright light. I can't say I'm not afraid of death but it's nice to hear stories like these from folks that help lessen that fear. :)

Personal experience corroborates. The last embers of self fade away in a place far too narrow to fit anything but that overwhelming peace.

It's a difficult subject though, the fear of death underpins a significant portion of life (see terror management theory for that idea taken to the extreme). I don't know the value of trying to undermine it at scale.

Re: Awareness at Death

#35

I had an English teacher in high school who had a near death experience during a surgery. His description of the experience tracks with what's in the article - floating above the body, a tremendous feeling of peace and acceptance, and the feeling of being drawn towards a bright light. I can't say I'm not afraid of death but it's nice to hear stories like these from folks that help lessen that fear. :)

I try to imagine life before I was born, and that doesn't seem so bad, so i assume worst case that's what death will be like.

The moments before, yeah who knows...

Re: Awareness at Death

#37

I had an English teacher in high school who had a near death experience during a surgery. His description of the experience tracks with what's in the article - floating above the body, a tremendous feeling of peace and acceptance, and the feeling of being drawn towards a bright light. I can't say I'm not afraid of death but it's nice to hear stories like these from folks that help lessen that fear. :)

Obviously, I can't say what your teacher experienced. But think about this. His brain was going through a traumatic experience of some kind, presumably at least low oxygen and a accumulation of cellular waste products, such as CO2, due to lack of blood flow. After he was resuscitated, his now functioning brain was left to make narrative sense out of what it had experienced. How much of that was was after the fact rec…

The fact that we can induce out of body experiences with drugs that appear to exactly match lends credence to this idea.

Re: Awareness at Death

#38

I had an English teacher in high school who had a near death experience during a surgery. His description of the experience tracks with what's in the article - floating above the body, a tremendous feeling of peace and acceptance, and the feeling of being drawn towards a bright light. I can't say I'm not afraid of death but it's nice to hear stories like these from folks that help lessen that fear. :)

It's a logical fallacy to say that a common experience is the only experience, and that fear therefore should be lessened. Perhaps the fear is there for good reason, and perhaps there is a soul and there is moral judgment at death and perhaps our moral character is sealed in stone at death, whether good or bad. Can't rule these out because lots of NDEs say it's a peaceful experience.

Re: Awareness at Death

#39
post #12

Always wondered if the likes of DMT or trace amounts of it contribute to these experiences similar to how adrenaline is produced during fight/flight response. Could it be possible that the brain sensing no more blood is being supplied then triggers a mechanism to release this chemical (and in what quantities)? Wildly speculating as a layman, however, maybe there is a link between dream states / DMT production/synthes…

This is totally a thing! https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/wp-content/uploa... https://analyticalsciencejournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/do...

It's interesting that the neuroprotective chemicals also happen to result in a pleasant feeling, as there would have been no evolutionary pressure whatsoever to make a physiological state that's almost exclusively experienced just before death feel like anything in particular. Anything from bliss to agonizing pain to nothing would have been equally viable.

Re: Awareness at Death

#40
In January, 2022, I experienced a 100% blockage of my Left Anterior Descending artery (a "widowmaker" heart attack), and I experienced cardiac arrest for a minute or two while on the exam table in a local emergency room. CPR was administered, and I was shocked back into rhythm, whereupon I regained consciousness immediately.

During the time I was dead, I have a memory. It is a singular experience of non-existence. Everything was black, and warm, and comfortable. It was silent, and there was no pain or concern for anything that had been going on. I didn't even think about it. It was as though I were in the most effective sensory deprivation tank ever.

Then they shocked me, and it hurt like hell. I woke up, looked at the doctor, and he said, "you went away for a few there", and I said, "Oh, did I?".

A couple minutes later, they "lost" me, and I went back to the blackness, but for a much shorter period of time, and I was shocked almost immediately. I had the wherewithal, upon being shocked, to say, in a very annoyed voice, 'Ouch.' which apparently caused some people in the ER room to laugh.

I ended up crashing 6 times that day, and each time I underwent cardiac arrest, it was like slipping back asleep into the deepest dream.

I used to be afraid to die. Now, I'm not, but I'm afraid to leave behind the people that I love, because I want to spend time with them, and I don't want them to have to go through me leaving them again.

Update: Here's a link to my tweet when I first talked publicly about it - https://twitter.com/standaloneSA/status/1478436334347816960

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