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Europe gives Mark Zuckerberg 24 hours to respond about Israel-Hamas conflict

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Re: Europe gives Mark Zuckerberg 24 hours to respond about Israel-Hamas conflict

#41

Post by jruohonen »

clubm8 wrote: post #10
ComputerGuru wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The DSA you speak of is not the DSA (Digital Services Act) the article refers to. (I didn’t downvote, fwiw.)

You can vote however you want, it was a small joke. I was drawing attention to the fact that "disinformation" is at it's core, someone who has no right to vote in an election trying to influence those who do, and how we often paint lawful, protected speech as disinformation, either by direct retorts "Russian bot!" or... downvoting. Vote however you want friends, I play by "Whose Line" rules -- it's all made up and th…

> I was drawing attention to the fact that "disinformation" is at it's core, someone who has no right to vote in an election trying to influence those who do

While the terminology is still awful, I think this was an insightful attempt toward trying to frame the issue as exported propaganda by foreign actors.

Re: Europe gives Mark Zuckerberg 24 hours to respond about Israel-Hamas conflict

#42

Post by Manfred »

bwanab wrote: post #9

Very few countries have freedom of speech enshrined quite as forcefully as it is in the United States. One really has to wonder where this is going to go? I understand why they want to do it, but once a censorship regime is established it will be very difficult to dislodge. What happens when the next set of elections puts in somebody who uses that power for less than ideal purposes?

The Digital Services Act is about enforcing rules that are already in place. For example, traditional media has always been bound to certain rules.

> These are dissemination of illegal content, negative effects on certain fundamental rights (privacy, freedom of expression, prohibition on discrimination and the rights of a child), and intentional manipulation of the services […]

Source: https://policyreview.info/articles/news/digital-services-act...

If enough countries in the EU shift their moral compass and then elect enough officials in the EU parliament and then change the laws and regulations you could say that it's a democratic decision to change the rules.

Re: Europe gives Mark Zuckerberg 24 hours to respond about Israel-Hamas conflict

#43

Post by gambiting »

brainwad wrote: post #28
blitzar wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You stick the CEO in jail.

The CEO of Meta, who lives in the US? Good luck with that.

He regularly visits EU for both business and for fun - sure would suck for him to never be able to set a foot in any EU country ever again.

Re: Europe gives Mark Zuckerberg 24 hours to respond about Israel-Hamas conflict

#44

Post by gambiting »

clubm8 wrote: post #5
jruohonen wrote: post #2

"In addition to disinformation surrounding the conflict in Israel, Breton wrote that the EU had received reports of manipulated content and deepfakes on Meta's platforms ahead of the recent election in Slovakia. He said that misinformation about elections is taken "extremely seriously" under the DSA." The recent Slovak elections are indeed a good example of things to come.

>misinformation about elections is taken "extremely seriously" under the DSA Speaking as a card carrying DSA member who primaried many folks... well actually my wallet was stolen but you get the idea... Speaking as someone who joined the DSA post Trump... people tend to get really pissy if you accuse them of being a Russian robot one too many times :-)

What's DSA?

Re: Europe gives Mark Zuckerberg 24 hours to respond about Israel-Hamas conflict

#45

Post by josephcsible »

blitzar wrote: post #34
brainwad wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CEO of Meta, who lives in the US? Good luck with that.

Extradition treaties exist. Or just go the US route and do an extraordinary rendition. They don't seem to have a problem with that.

Doesn't the double criminality rule combined with the First Amendment prevent extradition for things like this?

Re: Europe gives Mark Zuckerberg 24 hours to respond about Israel-Hamas conflict

#46

Post by slg »

bwanab wrote: post #9

Very few countries have freedom of speech enshrined quite as forcefully as it is in the United States. One really has to wonder where this is going to go? I understand why they want to do it, but once a censorship regime is established it will be very difficult to dislodge. What happens when the next set of elections puts in somebody who uses that power for less than ideal purposes?

>Very few countries have freedom of speech enshrined quite as forcefully as it is in the United States. One really has to wonder where this is going to go?

It leads to an oligarchy as the rich are able to use their money as speech to buy control of the government. Oh wait, you meant the US's free speech laws are a good thing.

Maybe the Americans reading this should think about how their opinion on this issue might have been impacted by their American education and American upbringing. People outside the US aren't all stupid. There are reasons other countries have different speech laws and not all of those reasons are bad.

Re: Europe gives Mark Zuckerberg 24 hours to respond about Israel-Hamas conflict

#47

Post by threatofrain »

bestouff wrote: post #14
bwanab wrote: post #9

Very few countries have freedom of speech enshrined quite as forcefully as it is in the United States. One really has to wonder where this is going to go? I understand why they want to do it, but once a censorship regime is established it will be very difficult to dislodge. What happens when the next set of elections puts in somebody who uses that power for less than ideal purposes?

I'm not sure this "freedom of speech" absolutism is such a good idea. A society needs to put limits on behavior of its individuals to be sane. I support that people can express whatever opinion they have, but not in any way they want.

No nation has pure freedom of speech anyway; we're all just shades of gray with Europe opting for a little more color over the US.

Re: Europe gives Mark Zuckerberg 24 hours to respond about Israel-Hamas conflict

#48

Post by anonyfox »

bwanab wrote: post #9

Very few countries have freedom of speech enshrined quite as forcefully as it is in the United States. One really has to wonder where this is going to go? I understand why they want to do it, but once a censorship regime is established it will be very difficult to dislodge. What happens when the next set of elections puts in somebody who uses that power for less than ideal purposes?

I, for one, don’t want to see/read holocaust deniers, aggressive hate speech, or fascist propaganda.

This stuff is not okay in any way. People being allowed to megaphone this FUD for cheap attention/clicks/manipulation always find idiots who actually believe this shit, and move the Overton window towards even more destructive speech being tolerated.

While I do value free speech in general, there is a red line. Like, I can tolerate a lot of weird people talking nonsense, but when you spread hate I‘d confront you right on the street in reallife. „But it’s my opinion“ is NO excuse for being an asshole.

Re: Europe gives Mark Zuckerberg 24 hours to respond about Israel-Hamas conflict

#49

Post by r00fus »

blitzar wrote: post #20
8bithero wrote: post #12

Sorry if this is a silly question: The article states that if the companies fail to comply then they can be issued with fines worth 6% of the company’s annual revenue. What would happen in the even where one of the companies just said "Nope. We're not paying it."? In that case I assume the offending company would be dragged into lengthy and expensive legal battles against the EU. But is it likely that the EU could or…

You stick the CEO in jail.

No need for that; EU can essentially poison EU markets for FB (sanctions/fines/blocks). Most shareholders will act accordingly and tank the stock. Even if Mark can ignore because he holds most of the voting interest, this directly impacts all vested workers, so becomes an HR nightmare.

Re: Europe gives Mark Zuckerberg 24 hours to respond about Israel-Hamas conflict

#50

Post by malermeister »

houseatrielah wrote: post #38
bestouff wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure this "freedom of speech" absolutism is such a good idea. A society needs to put limits on behavior of its individuals to be sane. I support that people can express whatever opinion they have, but not in any way they want.

You say "society", but in practice its a group of unelected bureaucrats engaging in political censorship and regulatory capture.

Who exactly is unelected?
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