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US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

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Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#381

Post by Nullabillity »

niij wrote: post #380
messe wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have thought: a lack of access to masks during a pandemic due to their in-affordability? But who am I to question the wisdom of the free market…

If you don't let people price goods at what they're worth the buyer is decided by random chance and you get shortages instead. Is there really a human right for "the fastest buyers on eBay should get the goods"?

Clearly the old unit price was already profitable, or there would have been no supply rather than insufficient supply.

Rewarding this kind of greed also isn't exactly pushing society in a positive direction, longer term.

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#382

Post by PH95VuimJjqBqy »

hoofhearted wrote: post #226
PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is catless a portmanteau of catalytic converter and less? meaning, the lack of a catalytic converter?

Yes. Remove the cat for either a straight pipe, or resonator. HKS silently discontinued their “catless” downpipes in the U.S. around 2021 for mentioned reasons above.

ok, I've never heard the word catless but I've definitely driven vehicles that had a pipe welded in place :)

I or a family member has acquired a few vehicles where the catalytic converter was cut out by thieves, and I've done both so I can tell you from experience that it's the difference between $15 and $800 (parts and labor).

Having grown up extremely poor, sometimes families make those decisions because they don't really have a choice. Thankfully nowadays I do so I tend to err on the side of being a good citizen but personally will not judge anyone who choose s to weld a pipe in place rather than spend the exorbitant amount necessary to replace it, especially considering it might just get stolen again.

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#383

Post by niij »

Nullabillity wrote: post #381
niij wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't let people price goods at what they're worth the buyer is decided by random chance and you get shortages instead. Is there really a human right for "the fastest buyers on eBay should get the goods"?

Clearly the old unit price was already profitable, or there would have been no supply rather than insufficient supply. Rewarding this kind of greed also isn't exactly pushing society in a positive direction, longer term.

Do you see any downsides to government's setting prices? There have been a few examples of this in the 20th century..

> Rewarding this kind of greed also isn't exactly pushing society in a positive direction, longer term.

Call it what you want, but they're the ones making and providing goods we all agree are necessary :) money is the tool our society uses to incentivize more of that behavior.

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#384

Post by alistairSH »

nikau wrote: post #376
alistairSH wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can (indirectly) blame World Rally for this. Those car started doing this 15 or so years ago - the engineers found that dumping raw fuel directly into the turbo (IIRC, they had a 5th injector in the exhaust manifold) kept it spooled up during shifts and throttle lifts.

injector antilag systems were around in the 80s, they are very hard on the turbos and manifolds however.

Yeah, I was thinking that the guys who are adding "anti-lag" to their street cars probably first encountered it watching WRC. Or maybe touring cars.

What's crazy to me is I hear it on cars that aren't even turbo - they're just running super rich with no muffler/resonator, so it pops/burbles more than normal. Can't be good for the car (the catalyst in particular, assuming they've bothered to keep it).

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#385

Post by queuebert »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #369
queuebert wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dedicated race cars don't have emissions controls, though. For some reason, only race cars that drive on both roads and tracks are regulated.

This too is incorrect. If a vehicle is made with for street purposes, it can never have its emission devices removed. Even if it used as a dedicated race car

As you probably know, I was referring to custom built race cars, such as Indy or Nascar. But yes there is a very tiny set of cars that were once street cars that have been modified and now only race and never, ever, even for a minute, drive on the roads.

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#386

Post by I_Am_Nous »

winrid wrote: post #331
I_Am_Nous wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad bought a truck with aftermarket headers installed and dual aftermarket glasspack mufflers. If you were going down a hill and let off the throttle, it would "popcorn" like you described, but not obnoxiously. It was loud when you accelerate quickly, though. Scared a horse once when he pushed the clutch in and revved the engine. I'd personally rather have a fast, but quiet vehicle. Most vehicles people make loud…

That was also probably due to having a carburetor which won't completely stop putting fuel into the engine on decel like EFI.

I looked it up and the 1987-1991 Ford F series trucks came with some carbureted trucks and some EFI trucks, so it definitely could have been a carb helping too :)

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#387

Post by tristor »

LogicX wrote: post #350
tristor wrote: post #163

I am very annoyed by the decision of the EPA to start cracking down, because it's made it impossible to import parts for my track/race cars, even though it's completely legal to do so. Like many things, the market for enthusiasts supported availability and reasonable pricing for the more hardcore enthusiasts.

From TFA: “The DOJ’s suit comes after the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) said that emissions defeat devices would no longer be a top priority for the agency.” So literally the EPA did the exact opposite of your complaint. Or you meant to say DOJ.

It's funny you say that, since last year the EPA went down a who's-who of those that make exhaust components and sell exhaust components in the US. One of the first, most basic things, that you do is to replace the exhaust to open up flow and improve performance when you're building a race car (and reduce weight). Additionally you do tuning of the engine management system, which the largest provider of was a company called EcuTek that also had an enforcement action. https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/national-enforcement-and-com...

I mean... if you're building a race car, which is offroad use, and legally allows you to defeat emissions devices, but the EPA has taken enforcement actions against everyone who makes them or sells them, where are you supposed to buy them? I can do my own exhaust work, but I can't sit down and build my own ECU programmer that bypasses the encryption that the manufacturer puts into their product and debugs their proprietary CANbus protocol to reconfigure the fuel system mappings. I mean, I probably /could/, but we're talking about years of dedicated work on my part, and I'm sharper than the average racer when it comes to technical things. Typically you get at most 4-5 months to prep a race car for the following season.

The PR twit at the EPA can say whatever they want, but the proof is in the pudding and actions speak louder than words. The EPA fucked over everyone who does amateur motorsports in this country, point-blank.

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#388

Post by tristor »

kart23 wrote: post #321
tristor wrote: post #163

I am very annoyed by the decision of the EPA to start cracking down, because it's made it impossible to import parts for my track/race cars, even though it's completely legal to do so. Like many things, the market for enthusiasts supported availability and reasonable pricing for the more hardcore enthusiasts.

like what parts... I doubt epa cares about your suspension or non-emission related parts.

Like, emissions-related parts, for a /race car/. Like, what I already said.

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#389

Post by Nullabillity »

niij wrote: post #383
Nullabillity wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly the old unit price was already profitable, or there would have been no supply rather than insufficient supply. Rewarding this kind of greed also isn't exactly pushing society in a positive direction, longer term.

Do you see any downsides to government's setting prices? There have been a few examples of this in the 20th century.. > Rewarding this kind of greed also isn't exactly pushing society in a positive direction, longer term. Call it what you want, but they're the ones making and providing goods we all agree are necessary :) money is the tool our society uses to incentivize more of that behavior.

> Call it what you want, but they're the ones making and providing goods we all agree are necessary :)

Bullshit. The owning class doesn't make anything, and the actual workers won't see a cent of that surge pricing.

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#390

Post by niij »

Nullabillity wrote: post #389
niij wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you see any downsides to government's setting prices? There have been a few examples of this in the 20th century.. > Rewarding this kind of greed also isn't exactly pushing society in a positive direction, longer term. Call it what you want, but they're the ones making and providing goods we all agree are necessary :) money is the tool our society uses to incentivize more of that behavior.

> Call it what you want, but they're the ones making and providing goods we all agree are necessary :) Bullshit. The owning class doesn't make anything, and the actual workers won't see a cent of that surge pricing.

> The owning class

Ok lol. I see I'm not revolutionary enough.

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