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Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

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Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#41

Post by diggan »

xnx wrote: post #18

Well done. There would be so many more cool applications of e-ink if it wasn't $2,500 for a 42" display: https://shopkits.eink.com/en/product/detail/42''MonochromeeP... (minimum order 3) For comparison a 42" full-color 60fps TV with remote, speakers, wifi, etc. etc. is $140. It seems like the patent holder could be making a lot more money if they dropped the price.

> if it wasn't $2,500 for a 42" display

Try $3000 :)

> Driving boards are not included in the display module package. E Ink Salt kit is designed to support this module

> Salt Driving Board - $500.00 - https://shopkits.eink.com/en/product/detail/SaltDrivingBoard

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#42

Post by chromakode »

Awesome project! I'd strongly recommend swapping in some antireflective glass. There's a couple affordable options with less than 1% reflection [1][2]. Made a huge difference vs. stock acrylic on my frames that get lots of environmental light.

[1] https://www.groglass.com/product/artglass-ar-70/

[2] https://www.framedestination.com/prod/sh/ultravue-uv70-pictu...

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#43

Post by andrewstuart »

I would love two wall mounted e-ink displays showing chess boards so my 14 year old son could play chess with his grandfather.

I imagine the game keeping track of whose turn it is and being able to give voice commands to make moves.

Then they could play games over a longer period of time, maybe make one move per day.

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#44

Post by lawlessone »

graypegg wrote: post #36
xnx wrote: post #18

Well done. There would be so many more cool applications of e-ink if it wasn't $2,500 for a 42" display: https://shopkits.eink.com/en/product/detail/42''MonochromeeP... (minimum order 3) For comparison a 42" full-color 60fps TV with remote, speakers, wifi, etc. etc. is $140. It seems like the patent holder could be making a lot more money if they dropped the price.

Hmm. I wonder what the whole-sale price is? A TV with wifi is partly subsidized by the ads you see when you turn it on. This 2500$ display seems like it’s for small run signage, so they know it’s being sold for government/business use. Probably a bit inflated. Does Rakutan/Amazon/Pocketbook really pay a similar cost/size ratio for the panels on their ereaders? I hope not!

>so they know it’s being sold for government/business use. Probably a bit inflated.

You just reminded me, a few years ago i wanted to buy a transparent screen for a DIY project. The company said they couldn't sell it to me because they're b2b.

I think it was both a volume thing and a tax thing.. and possibly a liability thing.

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#45

Post by schlarpc »

I have a similar display, and also use blue noise dithering. Mine is driven in the backend by a web browser, which means I was able to abuse CSS and mix-blend-mode to do the dithering for me:

  ha-card::after {
    content: "";
    background-image: url(/local/visionect-dither.png);
    background-repeat: repeat;
    position: absolute;
    height: 100%;
    width: 100%;
    display: block;
    mix-blend-mode: multiply;
  }
The dithering texture used is 128_128/LDR_LLL1_10.png from https://github.com/Calinou/free-blue-noise-textures

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#46

Post by lawlessone »

bee_rider wrote: post #34
lionkor wrote: post #5

That's a very neat project. The only issue I have with it is that it's basically a passive energy waster. It produces images by burning GPU power, when it could instead curate art from an existing amount of art (of which there is more to ever go through, almost in any category). Some projects that use AI could be replaced with other tech and be much more efficient.

They should render these images when there’s excess renewable energy, then store them for later.

This is just a little too close to NFT art for me lol.

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#47

Post by lawlessone »

sho_hn wrote: post #32
yohannparis wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is the information on how you built it?

There's some info on my Hackaday project listing: https://hackaday.io/project/190478-hyepaper Also the album link in the other comment.

You could really gaslight house guests with this. Just deny it's changed.

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#48

Post by xnx »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #38
xnx wrote: post #18

Well done. There would be so many more cool applications of e-ink if it wasn't $2,500 for a 42" display: https://shopkits.eink.com/en/product/detail/42''MonochromeeP... (minimum order 3) For comparison a 42" full-color 60fps TV with remote, speakers, wifi, etc. etc. is $140. It seems like the patent holder could be making a lot more money if they dropped the price.

>For comparison a 42" full-color 60fps TV with remote, speakers, wifi, etc. etc. is $140. Because it's a lot easier and cheaper to manufacture large LCD panels at scale than E-ink film. >It seems like the patent holder could be making a lot more money if they dropped the price. I don't know any company or shareholders that would say no to making more money so if this would actually be true then it would, but that's n…

I didn't realize e-ink manufacturing was such a tricky process. I would think there would be a lot of applications for larger e-ink panels even if they had a number of stuck pixels.

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#49

Post by bigfudge »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #38
xnx wrote: post #18

Well done. There would be so many more cool applications of e-ink if it wasn't $2,500 for a 42" display: https://shopkits.eink.com/en/product/detail/42''MonochromeeP... (minimum order 3) For comparison a 42" full-color 60fps TV with remote, speakers, wifi, etc. etc. is $140. It seems like the patent holder could be making a lot more money if they dropped the price.

>For comparison a 42" full-color 60fps TV with remote, speakers, wifi, etc. etc. is $140. Because it's a lot easier and cheaper to manufacture large LCD panels at scale than E-ink film. >It seems like the patent holder could be making a lot more money if they dropped the price. I don't know any company or shareholders that would say no to making more money so if this would actually be true then it would, but that's n…

I think it would be interesting to hear from an insider (with examples/evidence etc) what the mechanism is for eink to be more expensive. I/e/ the fundamentals for why this is the case beyond economies of scale. Given this history of the patent it looks to the outsider like this probably isn't the case and short sighted rent seeking is the problem. Would love to be wrong though, so if you do have a good explanation then here would be a great place to air it. I've not seen anything elsewhere...

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#50

Post by sho_hn »

chromakode wrote: post #42

Awesome project! I'd strongly recommend swapping in some antireflective glass. There's a couple affordable options with less than 1% reflection [1][2]. Made a huge difference vs. stock acrylic on my frames that get lots of environmental light. [1] https://www.groglass.com/product/artglass-ar-70/ [2] https://www.framedestination.com/prod/sh/ultravue-uv70-pictu...

I second this recommendation! Frame manufacturers sometimes call these products "museum glass", which combines anti-reflective properties with UV filters, usually with price points at 70% and 92% filters.

Some E-ink panels can be somewhat susceptible to UV light and perform better under a filter. You will sometimes find warnings in data sheets about refresh performance in direct sunlight, and danger of long-term permanent damage. Some of E-ink's signage products have, I think, filter layers built-in.

But also if you're using a passepartout like in this project, and the frame will hang in sunlight and you're not sure how the paper will perform, it's worth springing for the UV protection to avoid yellowing over time.

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