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US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

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Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#101

Post by hvs »

Someone1234 wrote: post #45
a2tech wrote: post #34

Anything to avoid regulating real change right? Why save huge amounts of emissions by mandating slight changes to over the road trucks and commercial users when you can instead harass regular (well asshole) drivers?

We can do two things. The big problem is the lack of emissions regulation (or even proposed) on the commercial vehicles. However, that isn't something the legislative branch can do by themselves (either EPA or DoJ), requires congressional action.

I think you mean "executive branch". The legislative branch IS congress.

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#102

Post by deathanatos »

rdschouw wrote: post #60
lsedgwick wrote: post #54

Emissions tests are a poverty tax that play a strong role in punishing people trying to buy affordable old cars and either pushing the demand curve for new cars, or pushing poor people into illegality or carlessness.

How do you mean? Here in Illinois they are free. It was also free in New Jersey.

Well, they're not free (in dollars) in CA or MA.

They're never free in terms of your time, either.

(But note that I agree with the sibling comments by cool_dude85 & undersuit, in this case. But they are a regressive tax.)

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#103

Post by grecy »

sandworm101 wrote: post #25

My understanding is that such parts are not by themselves illegal. The crime is actually using them on the road. My understanding was that they were legal for track purposes. I would never want to say that people should be able to defeat emissions, but a part of me does not like the idea that every vehicle owner is beholden to the OEM for parts in perpetuity. The "right to repair" people should be all over this fight…

> My understanding is that such parts are not by themselves illegal. The crime is actually using them on the road. My understanding was that they were legal for track purposes.

That certainly used to be the case, but it changed recently, and the EPA has been aggressively going after anyone who sells them for any purpose.

If you're in the US and sell things that can modify emissions stuff, they're coming for you. Period.

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#104

Post by pc86 »

miguelazo wrote: post #84
wutwutwat wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your municipality likely has noise ordinances for anything above a certain decibel level. This can be handled by your local PD giving them tickets for their exhausts. I’ve seen it done before. If they keep getting tickets/fines they will likely change their exhausts. You can probably call the city about it but you can also call the cops. Just remember what they say about snitches.

Most municipalities, especially ones relying on cops to enforce these rules, rarely take action on these complaints.

Who is going to enforce these rules other than cops?

I mean yeah if they never get complains about a given area and they get one call about a loud car driving they're not going to come in lights and sirens to search for them. But if they consistently get complaints it will absolutely guide their decision-making around where to patrol, how often, etc.

Of course this assumes that the political leadership in your municipality hasn't decided that cops don't need to enforce laws (rare outside of a few large cities) and they're not busier with much more serious crimes, underfunded and understaffed, and just not able to spend time on noise complaints (rare but a common talking point).

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#105

Post by Scoundreller »

miguelazo wrote: post #84
wutwutwat wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your municipality likely has noise ordinances for anything above a certain decibel level. This can be handled by your local PD giving them tickets for their exhausts. I’ve seen it done before. If they keep getting tickets/fines they will likely change their exhausts. You can probably call the city about it but you can also call the cops. Just remember what they say about snitches.

Most municipalities, especially ones relying on cops to enforce these rules, rarely take action on these complaints.

At least in Canadian cities, both bylaw officers and police can enforce these things. Bylaw officers tend to have less discretion on doing their job (and uhhh, fewer other crimes to claim to be busy with)

Though sometimes this double-responsibility just means finger-pointing instead of action.

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#106

Post by fsckboy »

sandworm101 wrote: post #25

My understanding is that such parts are not by themselves illegal. The crime is actually using them on the road. My understanding was that they were legal for track purposes. I would never want to say that people should be able to defeat emissions, but a part of me does not like the idea that every vehicle owner is beholden to the OEM for parts in perpetuity. The "right to repair" people should be all over this fight…

> My understanding is that such parts are not by themselves illegal. The crime is actually using them on the road. My understanding was that they were legal for track purposes.

ok, it's just a single datapoint, but motocross racetracks in New England, already built in the woods away from civilization, started requiring mufflers about 50 years ago, early 1970's

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#107

Post by dieselgate »

valianteffort wrote: post #99
sandworm101 wrote: post #25

My understanding is that such parts are not by themselves illegal. The crime is actually using them on the road. My understanding was that they were legal for track purposes. I would never want to say that people should be able to defeat emissions, but a part of me does not like the idea that every vehicle owner is beholden to the OEM for parts in perpetuity. The "right to repair" people should be all over this fight…

Not everyone lives in California so while OEM's might produce all cars to meet California standards, it is completely legal in states with more relaxed laws to make such modifications. At the least I think the government could argue about selling in jurisdictions where it is illegal.

To tap into this thread - this is quite real. One can just remove a catalytic converter (or have it stolen) and they'd then be "defeating emissions" so this lawsuit seems a bit zealous to me.

Recently saw a post on a diesel truck forum about a CA resident who had legal/registration issues because of an engine swap (post emissions engine into a pre-emissions vehicle) [1]

Am under the impression this particular vehicle would be fine in WA state by comparison.

It's frustrating to see consumer vehicles being so strongly targeted by regulatory shenanigans compared to "private jets" and the like

[1] https://www.oilburners.net/threads/california-diesel-convers...

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#108

Post by sidewndr46 »

WirelessGigabit wrote: post #50

This is wonderful. I wish they did the same about modifications done to increase the noise. I've got 2 people living nearby that both have straight-piped their car and I literally cover my ears when they pass by. My Watch literally tells me that a noise peak happened when they drive by.

You would need to stop the sale of exhaust tubing to prevent this. I don't think that is realistic

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#109

Post by sidewndr46 »

sandworm101 wrote: post #25

My understanding is that such parts are not by themselves illegal. The crime is actually using them on the road. My understanding was that they were legal for track purposes. I would never want to say that people should be able to defeat emissions, but a part of me does not like the idea that every vehicle owner is beholden to the OEM for parts in perpetuity. The "right to repair" people should be all over this fight…

This is incorrect. Federal law prohibits the removal of emissions devices on a vehicle, even if not used on public roads.

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#110

Post by sschueller »

WirelessGigabit wrote: post #50

This is wonderful. I wish they did the same about modifications done to increase the noise. I've got 2 people living nearby that both have straight-piped their car and I literally cover my ears when they pass by. My Watch literally tells me that a noise peak happened when they drive by.

Call the police on them. It's illegal almost everywhere.
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