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Passkeys are now enabled by default for Google users

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Re: Passkeys are now enabled by default for Google users

#101
I might regret this but I have an (almost finished) draft of a paper on Passkeys, it is available, with comments enabled (which will be turned off if vandalism becomes a problem) at:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eBjQDWkbqXJSL4GRrAdTUcAx...

TL;DR:

============

Major insights in this paper:

Passkeys level up security, and while Passkeys make some tradeoffs concerning security vs. usability, they do not introduce any new attacks and make many existing attacks much harder or impossible (e.g. brute forcing attacks or credential stuffing) Passkeys will bypass the hurdle of getting people to start using password managers, and will likely result in the widespread use of biometrics to secure Passkeys Passkeys can potentially make account sharing harder once attestation is supported, something a lot of service vendors are in favor of. Passkeys are also easier to deploy and reliable due to optional device synchronization, which should reduce the need for account recoveries and lower support costs Passkey client support in both software and secure hardware tokens is widespread and available now on most platforms, browsers and most third-party password managers Passkeys are being deployed by major vendors (e.g. Google https://blog.google/technology/safety-security/passkeys-defa...)

============

Conclusion:

No new significant risks or attacks are introduced from the threat model perspective. From a usability and reliability perspective, Passkeys are infinitely better than passwords. Finally, from a support perspective, chances are that if you currently use a system to manage your passwords, it already has Passkey support. For high-security applications, you can also choose to use your hardware token.

Web applications and websites are becoming increasingly critical to everyday life (banking, healthcare, education, shopping, etc.). We must improve security across the board and get rid of old and insecure things like usernames and passwords. The world has also changed, and virtually everyone has a smartphone, something unimaginable even ten years ago, let alone twenty.

Simply put, in every situation where you use a password, you should upgrade to a Passkey if possible.

Re: Passkeys are now enabled by default for Google users

#103
post #65

Simpson's Paradox lives here. On average, this might increase security (the vast majority of users are terrible at using passwords). For proficient users who use passwords securely, this is an acute drop in security (if forced to use). Forced phone number 2FA has the same effect; in Big G's case forcing phone number 2FA is anti-anonymity disguised as security. In this case, it's a bid for biometrics.

> Forced phone number 2FA has the same effect; in Big G's case forcing phone number 2FA is anti-anonymity disguised as security.

It can actually be both; in fact it very likely needs to be:

1. Phone numbers are the best long-term identity most people have

2. Google has billions of users and needs to support account recovery at unbelievable scale

3. Many people lose passwords and devices, but very few lose phone numbers

It logically follows google uses phone numbers to assign and delegate identity on their platform. Is this bad for privacy? Yes, but it's also very good for security because it allows users to control their data using a third-party authenticated "credential" they don't have to manage.

Re: Passkeys are now enabled by default for Google users

#104
post #2

One of my companies switched to Yubi pass keys. They were super cool -- until I tried to log in on a computer with only USB-A ports. My key is USB-C. I suppose I need to get an adapter now.

Passkeys are stored within your device, iPhone, Android, browser, or system keychain. https://passkeys.directory/ https://www.stavros.io/posts/clearing-up-some-passkeys-misco... https://support.apple.com/en-us/102195

Or yubikey.

Re: Passkeys are now enabled by default for Google users

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Passkeys are typically synced to cloud storage.

That does seem circular in Google's case, no? What cloud storage?

Google Password Manager.

https://developers.google.com/identity/passkeys/supported-en...

Re: Passkeys are now enabled by default for Google users

#106
post #23

"To use passkeys, you just use a fingerprint, face scan or pin to unlock your device, and they are 40% faster than passwords — and rely on a type of cryptography that makes them more secure. " Who wrote this sentence? It's just a mess.

also, "ah yes, a several digit pin, famously more secure than a same-length password that adds even as little as letters".

A PIN associated with a specific device that been cryptographically linked to your account. So while a seven digit PIN is easier to guess than a password, the physical device is much harder to steal over the internet. It’s defacto 2FA authentication.

Re: Passkeys are now enabled by default for Google users

#107
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah right, account recovery. The one that tells me the only way to sign in to my old Google account is to use a phone that no longer exists.

What’s the standard then? Should it be possible to recover your account without possessing any evidence whatsoever that you are the person you say you are?

I'm willing to bet Google already has a frighteningly accurate ability to determine whether I am associated with or own a particular account.

Re: Passkeys are now enabled by default for Google users

#109
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it fair to say that passkeys secured on your phone are more secure than 1FA (password) but less secure than "traditional" 2FA?

   Passkey 2FA: unlock your phone and the passkey on your phone can log you in.

   Traditional 2FA: remember a password AND unlock your phone (where your TOTP is stored) and you can login
If I were to rate all 3 methods on a scale of 1 to 10, for convenience and security, I'd say:

     Method       Convenience   Security       

  Password only:      4/10        2/10

  Passkey 2FA:        9/10        8/10

  Traditional 2FA:    6/10        9/10
Fair?

Re: Passkeys are now enabled by default for Google users

#110
post #13

As a user I still don't understand this. What happens if there's a house fire or something and all my devices where I'm logged in with Google break? How do I log into my account again?

I think you’ll still need a password on your account for cases where no passkey is available, and possibly for other scenarios of heightened fraud risk. That’s why the setting they’re describing in the blog post is named “Skip password when possible”. Disclaimer: although I worked for Google many years ago in a role entirely unrelated to Google account authentication, I have no inside info on this announcement, could…

I also think that for sign-ups you still need a password for a while (simply as a fallback)
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