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Wayfire 0.8

wayfire.org

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Re: Wayfire 0.8

#21

Post by jcelerier »

OsrsNeedsf2P wrote: post #20

> The purpose of workspace sets is to have a dedicated set of normal workspaces for different activities the user does on their computer. For example, I have one workspace set (containing a 2x2 workspace grid) dedicated to Wayfire, where I have Wayfire’s source code, GitHub issues, wlroots, etc. There is another workspace set dedicated to a project I am working on for university, and so on. Of course, a similar effec…

i've been using https://github.com/infokiller/i3-workspace-groups for this to great effect for quite some time

Re: Wayfire 0.8

#22

Post by mato »

ammen99 wrote: post #8
toastal wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oof. That is not an acceptable way to treat the issue. It’s one thing to say you don’t the time & cycles, but it’s another to WONTFIX it twice with a clear usability problem.

As the maintainer of Wayfire, I would like to say why I don't consider this a critical issue: the current system allows you to bind actions to a particular physical key. So, no matter what physical keyboard layout and actual layout in software, with the current system, you can bind the action to the desired physical key. Or do people actually want their keybindings to change when they change their layouts?

> Or do people actually want their keybindings to change when they change their layouts?

It depends. As a counterpoint to the folks replying "yes", I have for years had Meta-[1..9] bound to "switch to desktop X". I also regularly use US English and Czech/Slovak keyboards.

In the X11 days, I never had to think about this, since for whatever reason (I believe technically a bug and/or X11-specific WM behaviour, but I've lost the reference...) Openbox would use the US English layout for its keybindings exclusively.

Since I switched to KDE Plasma on Wayland, I constantly get annoyed, every day, as I may have my keyboard set to SK, press what muscle memory says is Meta-[1] and instead I get a funky zoom, since that keystroke translates to Meta-[+] in the SK layout :-(

Re: Wayfire 0.8

#23

Post by tmtvl »

ammen99 wrote: post #8
toastal wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oof. That is not an acceptable way to treat the issue. It’s one thing to say you don’t the time & cycles, but it’s another to WONTFIX it twice with a clear usability problem.

As the maintainer of Wayfire, I would like to say why I don't consider this a critical issue: the current system allows you to bind actions to a particular physical key. So, no matter what physical keyboard layout and actual layout in software, with the current system, you can bind the action to the desired physical key. Or do people actually want their keybindings to change when they change their layouts?

People's brains just work differently. I don't remember "closing Awesome is Mod4 + Shift + the second key from the left on the bottom row", I remember "Mod4 + Shift + Q (for 'quit')" and my fingers know how to find 'Q'. If I change to Qwerty I'd have plenty of applications where the locations of keyboard shortcuts would change (like "Ctrl + C (for 'Copy')") and not having the keyboard shortcut for "close Awesome" change would be disorienting.

That said, maybe I'd have an easier time if it were possible to find a physical Dvorak keyboard, but alas: "worse is better".

OT: Wayfire is a really cool project and I admire how well it runs, it's real quality software.

Re: Wayfire 0.8

#24

Post by 05 »

ammen99 wrote: post #16
jraph wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or do people actually want their keybindings to change when they change their layouts? That's what actually happens everywhere. For instance undo is usually CTRL+Z. On QWERTY that will be CTRL + the key at the left side of the X, and on AZERTY that will be CTRL+the key at the left side of the E. Therefore, that's the behavior people expect and it has advantages. Having to write KEY_Z to actually have KEY_W is also…

I am mostly trying to understand what people actually use. I hate exactly this thing in most applications: ctrl-z doesn't work when I use the german layout (usually I use qwerty/us), and assumed most people would dislike it as well...

One more thing to think about: some layouts don't have Latin letters. So if you switch from English to Ukrainian, you'd lose all your keybindings with the approach requested in the ticket..

Re: Wayfire 0.8

#25

Post by onli »

ammen99 wrote: post #16
jraph wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or do people actually want their keybindings to change when they change their layouts? That's what actually happens everywhere. For instance undo is usually CTRL+Z. On QWERTY that will be CTRL + the key at the left side of the X, and on AZERTY that will be CTRL+the key at the left side of the E. Therefore, that's the behavior people expect and it has advantages. Having to write KEY_Z to actually have KEY_W is also…

I am mostly trying to understand what people actually use. I hate exactly this thing in most applications: ctrl-z doesn't work when I use the german layout (usually I use qwerty/us), and assumed most people would dislike it as well...

But that's easy. All software does something like CTRL-Z accordingly to the chosen layout. So the physical position of the switch to press on the keyboard changes accordingly to the layout, it changes when switching from qwerty to qwertz and again when it switches to dvorak.

I saw a few games where it wasn't that way, it was always treated as a bug.

Think of it from the user side: People are used to their shortcuts. They are used to press CTRL+Z where it is on their layout, as their keyboard keys will also be printed accordingly. Someone with a non-qwerty-layout may have never seen CTRL+Z leading to the physical key on the bottom left, for them it was always somewhere else. How would they know what to press, when the config says CTRL+Z, and they press CTRL+Z on their keyboard and nothing happens? How would someone who grew up with azerty know qwerty?

If you want to support "what people actually use", the keypresses have to be evaluated according to the actual keyboard layout used. I say this with absolute certainty, and as a multilingual developer who switched from qwertz to qwerty and had azerty in use as well for a time.

Re: Wayfire 0.8

#26

Post by [deleted] »

tmtvl wrote: post #2

I gave Wayfire a shot a bit earlier in the year, but as I am a Dvorak typist and https://github.com/WayfireWM/wayfire/issues/1601 > is marked as "wontfix", I decided to stick to Awesome for the time being. It did run like a dream, though, even on my ancient potato, so if the keybinding issue does get fixed at some point I may well switch over.

[deleted]

Re: Wayfire 0.8

#27

Post by dizhn »

One of the developers just responded on the github issue referecing this thread. (Also reopened the issue and removed wontfix)

"After a bit of discussion on HackerNews, I got a bit better understanding of the actual problem. People don't want to just configure the keys according to a particular layout - the actual 'issue' here is that they expect the key binding changes together with the layout. Unfortunately, the 0.8.0 changes didn't make this possible to implement as a plugin.

I would reconsider adding this as an option if there are enough interested people. React with a thumbs up to this comment if you are interested in having this option (though the defaults will certainly remain as they are now). Please, react only if you actually use Wayfire or would use it if it had this feature :)"

https://github.com/WayfireWM/wayfire/issues/1601#issuecommen...

Re: Wayfire 0.8

#28

Post by onli »

OsrsNeedsf2P wrote: post #20

> The purpose of workspace sets is to have a dedicated set of normal workspaces for different activities the user does on their computer. For example, I have one workspace set (containing a 2x2 workspace grid) dedicated to Wayfire, where I have Wayfire’s source code, GitHub issues, wlroots, etc. There is another workspace set dedicated to a project I am working on for university, and so on. Of course, a similar effec…

What blocked you from using any other WM with multiple workspaces in such a configuration?

Re: Wayfire 0.8

#29

Post by bitdivision »

jcelerier wrote: post #21
OsrsNeedsf2P wrote: post #20

> The purpose of workspace sets is to have a dedicated set of normal workspaces for different activities the user does on their computer. For example, I have one workspace set (containing a 2x2 workspace grid) dedicated to Wayfire, where I have Wayfire’s source code, GitHub issues, wlroots, etc. There is another workspace set dedicated to a project I am working on for university, and so on. Of course, a similar effec…

i've been using https://github.com/infokiller/i3-workspace-groups for this to great effect for quite some time

Thank you, this looks ideal. I've wanted a way to do this for a long time.

Re: Wayfire 0.8

#30

Post by binkHN »

OsrsNeedsf2P wrote: post #20

> The purpose of workspace sets is to have a dedicated set of normal workspaces for different activities the user does on their computer. For example, I have one workspace set (containing a 2x2 workspace grid) dedicated to Wayfire, where I have Wayfire’s source code, GitHub issues, wlroots, etc. There is another workspace set dedicated to a project I am working on for university, and so on. Of course, a similar effec…

Doesn't KDE's Activities handle this?
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