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The largest DDoS attack to date, peaking above 398M rps

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Re: The largest DDoS attack to date, peaking above 398M rps

#51

Post by seanmcdirmid »

dudeinjapan wrote: post #33
falcor84 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Made me wonder - if Google wasn't there and Altavista was the incumbent, would it be any different, or was the enshittification of search inevitable?

Was at Tokyo Disneyland today and taught my girlfriend the word “enshittification”. (i.e. making your customers pay via your stupid app to do literally anything in your park, and not even providing wi-fi.)

I don’t remember paying for anything at Disney Sea with the app except for a few fast passes (and used to schedule the free fast passes of course). Suica card and credit card worked for everything else.

Re: The largest DDoS attack to date, peaking above 398M rps

#52

Post by DanielBMarkham »

mihaic wrote: post #14

The fact that large cloud providers can handle huge DDoS attacks I think in the long run leads to a worse internet. It forces botnets to up their game and for websites the only solutions available are to pay Google, Amazon or Cloudflare a protection tax. I honestly don't see any other options, but I'd really wish for them to come through some community coordinated list of botnet infected IPs or something.

Why don't we just require major providers to provide a realtime list of IPs that are attacking so that we can drop them in a block list with an expiration date of a month or so.

If your computer is infected, I don't want to talk to you for a month. If it continues to be infected, I might up that to a year, or permanently ban you.

It's your problem. Go fix it.

Re: The largest DDoS attack to date, peaking above 398M rps

#53

Post by terlisimo »

mihaic wrote: post #14

The fact that large cloud providers can handle huge DDoS attacks I think in the long run leads to a worse internet. It forces botnets to up their game and for websites the only solutions available are to pay Google, Amazon or Cloudflare a protection tax. I honestly don't see any other options, but I'd really wish for them to come through some community coordinated list of botnet infected IPs or something.

I've witnessed a few sustained (hours/days long) DDOS attacks that were straight up extortion: owners contacted with "give us money or we will keep your site offline".

Most of the time I see attacks lasting 15-20 minutes. I'm assuming it's either someone doing it "for the lulz" or some cyber warfare outfit testing their big guns.

I always consider the possibility of someone using DDOS to mask a more sophisticated attack.

Re: The largest DDoS attack to date, peaking above 398M rps

#54

Post by _23sd »

dudeinjapan wrote: post #33
falcor84 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Made me wonder - if Google wasn't there and Altavista was the incumbent, would it be any different, or was the enshittification of search inevitable?

Was at Tokyo Disneyland today and taught my girlfriend the word “enshittification”. (i.e. making your customers pay via your stupid app to do literally anything in your park, and not even providing wi-fi.)

That's not enshittification, squeezing money out of you is just how theme parks operate. The term can't really apply to Disney parks at all because there's no two sided market.

Re: The largest DDoS attack to date, peaking above 398M rps

#55

Post by arein2 »

oldtownroad wrote: post #5

At a previous company, we were subject to semi-frequent attacks (of a much smaller scale). The operating assumption internally was that it’s a competitor trying to undermine us but it remains a mystery. Anyone involved in these type of attacks (at internet-infrastructure scale or targeting specific companies) brave/crazy enough to create a throwaway account and tell hn about the motivations?

A local hosting company ddosed local bussineses that had IT infrastructure and then advertised their hosting solution with ddos protection.

Re: The largest DDoS attack to date, peaking above 398M rps

#56

Post by tootie »

ricardobeat wrote: post #9

No word on the origin of these attacks? This must require massive amounts of hardware, you’d imagine it to be easily traceable unless some kind of botnet.

The immediate assumption is that Iran is doing it. They have done it many times before and they are allied with Hamas. I haven't seen any proof but it's a safe bet.

Re: The largest DDoS attack to date, peaking above 398M rps

#57

Post by tpetry »

vmfunction wrote: post #47
mihaic wrote: post #14

The fact that large cloud providers can handle huge DDoS attacks I think in the long run leads to a worse internet. It forces botnets to up their game and for websites the only solutions available are to pay Google, Amazon or Cloudflare a protection tax. I honestly don't see any other options, but I'd really wish for them to come through some community coordinated list of botnet infected IPs or something.

> pay Google, Amazon or Cloudflare a protection tax. Just FYI: hetzner has free DDoS https://www.hetzner.com/unternehmen/ddos-schutz I'm sure other hosting companies also offers it.

Only for mini DDoS attacks - for larger ones they disable routing for your ip address. I guess they don‘t have the capacity to handle the big DDoS attacks nowadays.

Re: The largest DDoS attack to date, peaking above 398M rps

#58

Post by candiddevmike »

AdamN wrote: post #38
mihaic wrote: post #14

The fact that large cloud providers can handle huge DDoS attacks I think in the long run leads to a worse internet. It forces botnets to up their game and for websites the only solutions available are to pay Google, Amazon or Cloudflare a protection tax. I honestly don't see any other options, but I'd really wish for them to come through some community coordinated list of botnet infected IPs or something.

The only answer is publicly-resourced protection and it's not that weird when you think about it. My apartment has a basic lock that any locksmith can undo and I'm safe because of my community and government protection (police, mental healthcare, justice system, etc...). Seems like the same logic should apply to my website or other digital property.

ISPs will gladly quarantine/rate limit folks for pirating stuff, why don't they use those tools to combat botnets? Though I could see this leading to a slippery slope of remote attestation for internet access.

Re: The largest DDoS attack to date, peaking above 398M rps

#59

Post by 542458 »

AdamN wrote: post #38
mihaic wrote: post #14

The fact that large cloud providers can handle huge DDoS attacks I think in the long run leads to a worse internet. It forces botnets to up their game and for websites the only solutions available are to pay Google, Amazon or Cloudflare a protection tax. I honestly don't see any other options, but I'd really wish for them to come through some community coordinated list of botnet infected IPs or something.

The only answer is publicly-resourced protection and it's not that weird when you think about it. My apartment has a basic lock that any locksmith can undo and I'm safe because of my community and government protection (police, mental healthcare, justice system, etc...). Seems like the same logic should apply to my website or other digital property.

Where this breaks down is that because of the nature of the internet and DDoS attacks it’s not something that can easily be solved with better policing - even identifying a perp might be near-impossible, and they might be in another country anyways. The government does try to prosecute botnets and DDoS attacks today, but it’s of limited success. Is there a practical solution here I’m missing?

Re: The largest DDoS attack to date, peaking above 398M rps

#60

Post by superhuzza »

grotorea wrote: post #39
tyingq wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the particularly bad news, this attack does NOT require a really huge botnet. https://blog.cloudflare.com/zero-day-rapid-reset-http2-recor... "Furthermore, one crucial thing to note about the record-breaking attack is that it involved a modestly-sized botnet, consisting of roughly 20,000 machines"

20000 being modest really says a lot about the state of security on the Internet.

Or does it say more about the sheer number of devices connected to the internet?
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