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Is consciousness part of the fabric of the universe?

scientificamerican.com

321–326 of 326 posts

Re: Is consciousness part of the fabric of the universe?

#321
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Says the troll that has nothing to add to the conversation except crapping on other people’s ideas without actually saying anything insightful at all. Well done

All you do is repeat solipsism ad nauseam.

Solipsism may not be incorrect, but is a very well-known dead end. Perhaps mention it once in a thread about consciousness, just to show the uninitiated that it exists. But don't bang on about it. It goes nowhere. It should go nowhere. If this whole discussion is a figment of your imagination (consciousness), then why participate?

Re: Is consciousness part of the fabric of the universe?

#322
This summary paper may help as an introduction, if you have not studied consciousness before:

Theories of Consciousness, Seth & Bayne (2022)

https://sussex.figshare.com/articles/journal_contribution/Th...

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41583-022-00587-4

Re: Is consciousness part of the fabric of the universe?

#323
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying “if we don’t know how to measure something, we declare it as unreal and pretend it doesn’t exist”? I mean, yes that’s precisely one of the main reasons why the spirit stuff is not accepted in science (can’t be effectively measured in a lab), but it’s surprising how people can just boldly declare a head in sand approach to things they don’t understand..

How does one understand something that is immeasurable? It's a confounding anomaly in logic for those who aren't privy to your subjective interpretations... As in, what are you talking about? It's nonsense from an outsider's perspective. What key do you hold that unlocks this other universe of experience besides wishful thinking and subjective interpretation?

> How does one understand something that is immeasurable?

We understand love as well as hate.

> What key do you hold that unlocks this other universe of experience besides wishful thinking and subjective interpretation?

We don't hold this key yet, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Re: Is consciousness part of the fabric of the universe?

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus christ this is such pure pseudoscientific wankery.

I've got the same vibe, starting at "consciousness collapses under the reductionist process currently employed in the scientific method." Uuuhh yeah, like most abstract things, consciousness is an emergent property of simpler processes, so naturally if you look at it the other way and decompose the world to understand it, at some point it will collapse. The next part about the scientific framework being a data struct…

You will definitely be better served with A Case Against Reality, much more than a single hn comment

Re: Is consciousness part of the fabric of the universe?

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With regard to Free Will, there is a little intellectual dodge called the Compatibilist solution (popularized by Dennett), which says you really feel like you have free will, but you do not. Also see Sam Harris and Robert Sapolsky on the topic (but note Dennett strongly disagrees with Harris, he has no choice, it could not be otherwise :) https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/compatibilism/ The feeling of Free Will is b…

Dennett... I don't think that guy can be called a real philosopher, but at least he's not just random "Journalist" like Sam harris is :) Again, my direct experience of free will is much stronger than any of the half ass explanations these guys have to offer (and they're obviously much more flawed, you can clearly notice the ideological motives they have in relation to these topics). My problem with this "explanation"…

I've never heard a credible explanation of free will or what someone means by that. Can you offer a description of what free will means, within known science?

I think it through several layers. At a personality layer most of the time you make decisions that are consistent with your personality. But occasionally you do something out of character.

At a lower level, a mind logic level, your mind / brain makes decisions based on weights. Should I have a coffee now - do I want one, do I enjoy it, am I trying to avoid caffeine because I felt a bit fuzzy yesterday etc. The bigger the decision the more weights go into it, but if you re-ran the same mind with the same weights then it makes the same decision every time, and if it didn't then er why? So where is the freedom there? To make a free choice at this level is to make a choice inconsistent with the experience + inputs of the mind.

Then at the lowest level, the brain is processes in the physical universe. Quantum probabilistic effects, as I understand it, don't have much effect on outcomes. And where they do, it's not like your brain controls that, it just happens. We have a physical state, time goes forward and we have a new state. And that's all there is, no concept of will, free or otherwise.

And you know, I think it's perfectly fine to feel like you have free will and not consider it often. Live your life as if you do. It's only if you focus on it that you can be like "ah, probably not then" but does it matter?

Re: Is consciousness part of the fabric of the universe?

#326
post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dennett... I don't think that guy can be called a real philosopher, but at least he's not just random "Journalist" like Sam harris is :) Again, my direct experience of free will is much stronger than any of the half ass explanations these guys have to offer (and they're obviously much more flawed, you can clearly notice the ideological motives they have in relation to these topics). My problem with this "explanation"…

I've never heard a credible explanation of free will or what someone means by that. Can you offer a description of what free will means, within known science? I think it through several layers. At a personality layer most of the time you make decisions that are consistent with your personality. But occasionally you do something out of character. At a lower level, a mind logic level, your mind / brain makes decisions…

Sorry, but your position is consistent with the mainstream scientism: "I have no explanation for X based on materialistic point of view, so either it doesn't exist or let's reduce the phenomena to fit our taste".

My point was, even if we don't know what is the deep explanation of the phenomena, my own experience is infinitely more credible than any other "scientific" stories I might hear, because to deny my own experience opens the door to deny other things including logic and everything I know and my own senses.

Also note that free will does not in any way assume that our decisions or actions are without cause, after all from religious point of view, everything in existence is caused ultimately by God. Even one can argue, that saying that free will is not based on causes, actually means free will is impossible, because that mean our will is based on true randomness which doesn't sound "free" much.

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