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Leantime: Open-Source Jira Alternative

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Re: Leantime: Open-Source Jira Alternative

#61

Post by hedora »

mqus wrote: post #55
intheleantime wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, we have 89 contributors... What are your concerns with AGPL? The practical difference is the clause that SaaS distributions require to be licensed as AGPL as well. Would you plan to take this, add commercial features and repackage as commercial closed source system?

As someone who would love to contribute: AGPL means nothing if I have to sign a CLA that gives you the ability to switch licenses on a whim. You will have much less contributors for this reason alone, while also scaring away customers.

Nothing stops you from forking it. I also dislike CLAs from a developer perspective, but I understand why companies require them. In particular, the CLA is likely going to make investors happy, and the investors pay the bills, at least initially.

If the investors eventually stop paying the bills (or if the set of people that want to contribute is larger than the set of people the investors will pay), then fork it. This seems like a win-win, in that developers win because they get Free tools, and in that developers win because the get paid well to develop open source software.

Re: Leantime: Open-Source Jira Alternative

#62

Post by hedora »

intheleantime wrote: post #15
cybrexalpha wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It spooks company lawyers. The AGPL's "license transference at a distance" is scary from a legal risk point of view. Many corporate legal departments forbid it, or at least getting the exception approved by legal is so painful as to not be worth it.

Correct but the reason for that is the fact that all of the sudden companies are forced to contribute back if they want to offer commercial software on top of the labor of OSS projects. Again, I agree with the reasoning for libraries, devTools, infrastructure etc given that those libraries end up in commercial products. However in the case of full fleshed enduser applications AGPL is a great protector against the ama…

For device manufacturers, GPL3 is just as onerous as AGPL.

As an end user, I'd rather not use GPL3 software that has a carve out that enables the software to be used by privacy hostile service providers that routinely force-upgrade their user customers to worse versions of their systems, but that prevents people from just sticking a customized version of the software on a gizmo and selling it to me.

After all, I can least air-gap and not upgrade most gizmos.

Anyway, I wish they'd rename AGPL to GPLv4 so the infamous "or later" clause applied to it.

Re: Leantime: Open-Source Jira Alternative

#63

Post by alexchamberlain »

intheleantime wrote: post #57
dmazzoni wrote: post #54

Can you talk about your tech stack? One of the biggest complaints about Jira is how slow it is. While I'm really interested in potential alternatives, I'm curious if you think PHP might be a bottleneck. If I follow a direct link to either a single existing issue, or a create new issue page, how fast does the page load? How well does the backend scale to 100k or 1M issues? How well does the frontend scale if you try t…

Hi, thanks for the question. It is a simple PHP application using Mysql as the database backend. We are using a domain driven design architecture across the application and decided to skip the slow ORMs in favor of a repository layer with hand written sql. We are framework agnostic to not be locked into any flow but you will see classes from Symfony and Laravel. The goal has always been to make Leantime as lean as po…

2 seconds is pretty slow, especially for a single item lookup which is about as good as it gets for database lookups etc.

Where is that time spent?

Re: Leantime: Open-Source Jira Alternative

#64

Post by intheleantime »

alexchamberlain wrote: post #63
intheleantime wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, thanks for the question. It is a simple PHP application using Mysql as the database backend. We are using a domain driven design architecture across the application and decided to skip the slow ORMs in favor of a repository layer with hand written sql. We are framework agnostic to not be locked into any flow but you will see classes from Symfony and Laravel. The goal has always been to make Leantime as lean as po…

2 seconds is pretty slow, especially for a single item lookup which is about as good as it gets for database lookups etc. Where is that time spent?

That is the entire cycle from browser, to server and back + js execution.

As mentioned in a comment below php execution including db call is: P95 is 120.9ms P99 is 634.11ms

Which means the rest is DNS lookups and js execution.

Re: Leantime: Open-Source Jira Alternative

#65

Post by no_wizard »

crabbone wrote: post #28

I keep looking at various JIRA alternatives, but no good finds so far. This is definitely not it. I don't really like the idea of bug tracker as a sort of a GUI program that acts like time management software, i.e. focuses on planning work, tracking how much effort was spent, ability to add notes to tasks etc. My ideal bug-tracking software works more like Git: it has a server-client relationship where clients query…

I can recommend Linear[0]

No affiliation. Simply, I really like how it works, and its a great interface as well. Really gets out of your way, has solid integrations and a good API for building your own

[0]: https://linear.app/

Re: Leantime: Open-Source Jira Alternative

#66

Post by leanable »

kyaghmour wrote: post #46
intheleantime wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You can even have and keep changes (unpublished) for you entire organization " -- add to that that the organization should have access to the source code, yes. That doesn't mean that you need to publish the code outside of your organization. " Even if the instance isn't public, if you so much as have a contractor remotely accessing " -- Correct, now you are distributing the software to the "public" external to your…

"interacting with it remotely through a computer network" isn't "distributing", it's hosting. Companies providing software under Affero licenses love to play with words. That's fine. It remains a bad license for users. I choose not to use any software licensed under its terms.

Dislike the Affero for being onerous too, however:

How do you run the code on your local computer if the code was not distributed to you?

It is similar as the old days of having to distribute to you the compiled code for you to install on your local computer.

Re: Leantime: Open-Source Jira Alternative

#67

Post by leanable »

edg-l wrote: post #20
jeo123 wrote: post #5

Not touching this AGPLv3 software. Every company I work on ban any software with that license. This will be a niche project or " propietary" to orginal developers. It is open-source for users using. Unlikely to see any open source developers contributing it back. Good luck.

I like to quote the gnu article on pragmatic idealism: > The GNU GPL is not Mr. Nice Guy. It says no to some of the things that people sometimes want to do. There are users who say that this is a bad thing—that the GPL “excludes” some proprietary software developers who “need to be brought into the free software community.” But we are not excluding them from our community; they are choosing not to enter. Their decisi…

Related to your quoted content, do you consider the Elastic License and Server Side Public License (SSPL) to be the 2020 updated version of the 1990 pragmatic idealism or do you consider them to be not similar in any way at all?

Re: Leantime: Open-Source Jira Alternative

#68

Post by leanable »

vijaykiran wrote: post #10
jeo123 wrote: post #5

Not touching this AGPLv3 software. Every company I work on ban any software with that license. This will be a niche project or " propietary" to orginal developers. It is open-source for users using. Unlikely to see any open source developers contributing it back. Good luck.

What exactly is the problem with AGPL if you just want to use it within your environment/company? It is no different than other OSS licenses in that sense.

Related to your understanding of licenses, do you consider the Elastic License and Server Side Public License (SSPL) to be the 2020 updated version of the 1990 pragmatic idealism or do you consider them to be not similar in any way at all?

Re: Leantime: Open-Source Jira Alternative

#69

Post by leanable »

hedora wrote: post #62
intheleantime wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct but the reason for that is the fact that all of the sudden companies are forced to contribute back if they want to offer commercial software on top of the labor of OSS projects. Again, I agree with the reasoning for libraries, devTools, infrastructure etc given that those libraries end up in commercial products. However in the case of full fleshed enduser applications AGPL is a great protector against the ama…

For device manufacturers, GPL3 is just as onerous as AGPL. As an end user, I'd rather not use GPL3 software that has a carve out that enables the software to be used by privacy hostile service providers that routinely force-upgrade their user customers to worse versions of their systems, but that prevents people from just sticking a customized version of the software on a gizmo and selling it to me. After all, I can…

Are you for or against the Affero?

Depending on the side your choose, could you explain a bit more on how and why Affero helps or does not help in the 1990s purpose of original 1990 license?

Re: Leantime: Open-Source Jira Alternative

#70

Post by leanable »

jddj wrote: post #11
intheleantime wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How come? The practical difference between AGPL and GPL is that the term "distribution" now includes distribution via network aka SaaS. Now I can see how this might be a problem for code libraries, infrastructure system etc but the only reason to worry about AGPL in an end user application context is the desire to repackage and sell commercially. Aka do the Amazon thing.

It's the obligatory copyleft is not free software astroturfing comment. Prompt is here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37611571 -- More seriously and charitably though, affero is vaguely scary because there's a (perhaps misunderstood, but I can understand) feeling that if you cooperate with it in any way in the backend and then a value-added product of that interaction makes it to a user of yours then you're up…

From your experience using Affero, could you explain a bit more on how to safely and correctly separate unrelated code from Affero code?

What is often misunderstood about Affero?

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