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Lawmakers shift gears on TikTok ban

politico.com

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Re: Lawmakers shift gears on TikTok ban

#51

Post by snarf21 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #14
coldpie wrote: post #5

> "There are real national security risks associated with TikTok, but it’s also an app 150 million Americans use," said Peter Harrell, who served on Biden’s National Security Council until last fall. It would be nice if anyone explained what those risks are, and why they don't apply to Facebook et al. Banning it on government devices makes sense, but I don't understand why they're trying to ban individuals from using…

> It would be nice if anyone explained what those risks are, and why they don't apply to Facebook et al. First of all, any company operating out of China can be assumed to be under more or less direct control of the CCP. When the Party comes knocking, there is no non-compliance to whatever they want. That alone is more than enough reason to be more skeptical of anything China. (Yes, I'm aware of FISA, but that's nowh…

It is far easier for the government to pressure and control (and spy on?) FB than it is for a CCP company. We don't no one spying on our citizens but us!!!!

Re: Lawmakers shift gears on TikTok ban

#52

Post by joenot443 »

coldpie wrote: post #19
mschuster91 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be nice if anyone explained what those risks are, and why they don't apply to Facebook et al. First of all, any company operating out of China can be assumed to be under more or less direct control of the CCP. When the Party comes knocking, there is no non-compliance to whatever they want. That alone is more than enough reason to be more skeptical of anything China. (Yes, I'm aware of FISA, but that's nowh…

If we agree that that's bad, why do we allow Facebook to do it? Why not craft a ban on the bad behavior, which would then necessarily also preclude Tiktok from doing it?

The very, very straightforward answer is that Facebook is accountable to the US govt in ways that TikTok is not. It's entirely reasonable for the US to legislate accordingly.

Re: Lawmakers shift gears on TikTok ban

#53

Post by ac54321 »

diogenes4 wrote: post #50
ejlxsh wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can’t you ban an app based on purpose, “they’re using the app to spy on us”, and then case law applies it on an app by app basis?

Surely this would mostly apply to non-chinese companies, no? This would wipe the market out.

OK. How about “they’re using the app to spy on us for a Foreign Hostile Government”

Re: Lawmakers shift gears on TikTok ban

#54

Post by henriquez »

Civil liberties group hated the RESTRICT Act because it basically gives the executive branch unilateral authority to censor web sites, which is why it stalled despite “support from senior leaders in both parties.”

The RESTRICT Act sounds like, and actually is censorship. That’s why the Biden admin is hard at work repackaging it as the HAPPY Act.

Re: Lawmakers shift gears on TikTok ban

#55

Post by zknow »

Hizonner wrote: post #42
mschuster91 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be nice if anyone explained what those risks are, and why they don't apply to Facebook et al. First of all, any company operating out of China can be assumed to be under more or less direct control of the CCP. When the Party comes knocking, there is no non-compliance to whatever they want. That alone is more than enough reason to be more skeptical of anything China. (Yes, I'm aware of FISA, but that's nowh…

> The second difference/risk comes with looking whom these apps target: kids. [...] kids are sponges So far as I can tell, the people most vulnerable to Internet propaganda, manipulation, and general bullshit, aren't kids. They're old people. And maybe younger people who've been raised in bubbles that were a bit overprotective. TikTok users are mostly teenagers, not little children. By the time you hit your teens, wh…

I'm not sure if the concern is really blatant disinformation ( which as you point out is easier to smell test ) or if its really more of the thought that the Chinese have a cambridge analytica level style access to American social data.

Sure teenagers can parse bias in the media they are consuming, but is it that effective when the media company can tailor content based on the user's preferences + the preferred political manipulation?

Not saying you should ban it, just a thought.

Re: Lawmakers shift gears on TikTok ban

#56

Post by colordrops »

ac54321 wrote: post #53
diogenes4 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely this would mostly apply to non-chinese companies, no? This would wipe the market out.

OK. How about “they’re using the app to spy on us for a Foreign Hostile Government ”

Is "Foreign Hostile Government" an official legal distinction? I thought the US was still on good terms with China as a trade partner.

Re: Lawmakers shift gears on TikTok ban

#57

Post by RGamma »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #12

The way I see it is this: If war were to break out between the US and China right now, what could they do with tiktok? I think they could censor victories and raise losses or fabricated stories, sow doubt at a minimum. Make dead american soldiers trend. Whether we like it or not, most teens get news from tiktok. At a maximum they could brick 150 million phones, use them to ddos, use them to hack/disrupt, etc. steal b…

On the longer horizon it's probably more useful: Rotting minds, sowing discord, making users depressed, addicted and stupid, derailing culture and public discourse.

Not unlike the companies who are in that game already (but for different reasons).

Re: Lawmakers shift gears on TikTok ban

#58

Post by cma »

throwaway63323 wrote: post #41
Eumenes wrote: post #4

At first, I was all for banning Tiktok, but I'm come around - no social media giant has the users or general public in mind, whether their HQ is in the US or China. Big tech in the US is just upset they didn't come up with Tiktok first and in turn, the intelligence agencies are upset they can't snoop as much as they'd like. This turns off politicians because they're 1) tight with big tech 2) support the federal intel…

>Big tech in the US is just upset they didn't come up with Tiktok first They did come up with it first, it was called Vine. I would even go as far as calling TikTok a Vine clone.

It was more focused on lip syncing, from their purchase of: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical.ly

Re: Lawmakers shift gears on TikTok ban

#59

Post by Spivak »

joenot443 wrote: post #52
coldpie wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we agree that that's bad, why do we allow Facebook to do it? Why not craft a ban on the bad behavior, which would then necessarily also preclude Tiktok from doing it?

The very, very straightforward answer is that Facebook is accountable to the US govt in ways that TikTok is not. It's entirely reasonable for the US to legislate accordingly.

> Facebook is accountable to the US govt in ways that TikTok

Why wouldn't it be? TikTok is now a US company with the data of US citizens stored in Austin TX.

https://usds.tiktok.com/usds-about

https://usds.tiktok.com/usds-myths-vs-facts

This is actually insane, the level of paranoia surrounding ByteDance has forced TikTok to jump through a billion hoops that no other foreign company has to and weirder still they did. Like my HIPAA is less protected than this.

> Myth: Under its 2017 National Intelligence law, the Chinese government can compel ByteDance to share American TikTok user data.

> Fact: TikTok Inc., which offers the TikTok app in the United States, is incorporated in California and Delaware, and is subject to U.S. laws and regulations governing privacy and data security. Under Project Texas, all protected U.S. data will be stored exclusively in the U.S. and under the control of the U.S.-led security team. This eliminates the concern that some have shared that TikTok US user data could be subject to Chinese law.

Re: Lawmakers shift gears on TikTok ban

#60

Post by macintosh-hd »

throwaway63323 wrote: post #41
Eumenes wrote: post #4

At first, I was all for banning Tiktok, but I'm come around - no social media giant has the users or general public in mind, whether their HQ is in the US or China. Big tech in the US is just upset they didn't come up with Tiktok first and in turn, the intelligence agencies are upset they can't snoop as much as they'd like. This turns off politicians because they're 1) tight with big tech 2) support the federal intel…

>Big tech in the US is just upset they didn't come up with Tiktok first They did come up with it first, it was called Vine. I would even go as far as calling TikTok a Vine clone.

Tik tok is only a vine clone if Reddit is a Twitter clone. They operate completely differently and had very different starting points.
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