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Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

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Re: Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

#181

Post by inglor_cz »

bpye wrote: post #88

I love night trains. I’ve taken them from Warsaw to Prague, Prague to Zurich, and Verona to Paris. It’s by far my preferred option - you get a decent nights sleep and whilst the tickets are more expensive it’s one fewer nights in a hotel which normally offsets it. I still really want to do the two in the UK, the Caledonian Sleeper and the Night Riviera.

I took a night train from Prague to different locations many times, but I cannot sleep well there. The incessant shaking of the carriage wakes me up, half of the journey my head is lower than my legs, and loud station announcements during stops don't help either.

I envy anyone who can catch more than 2-3 hours of sleep on a night train.

Re: Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

#182

Post by ddejohn »

bandofthehawk wrote: post #165
ddejohn wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The shoes and belts thing is ridiculous, I agree. But there's a legitimate reason for the liquid ban to which I'm not sure there's much of a solution, is there?

Is there a legitimate reason for the liquid ban? AFAIK it was a response to a failed terrorist attempt similar to the shoe bomber, but it's likely that the ban has little to no effect on overall safety. https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2020/03/tsa_admits_li...

That article you linked is just one big causal fallacy. It claims that the TSA admitted that the liquid ban was bullshit, citing a Slate article which does not itself even quote the TSA lol.

I'm not a chemist, but I'm under the impression that the liquid explosives in the 2006 plot are a much more feasible approach to explosives than what the shoe bomber attempted.

I'm also not going to pretend like I have any idea how effective any of these security measures are, I'm only explaining that I'm under the impression that there's at least a real precedent for them.

I don't know what the solution is to terrorism in air travel, but it's a very hard problem and the liquid limit isn't something that personally bothers me that much -- who wants to carry around full bottles of shampoo and shower soap and whatever else anyway?

Re: Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

#183

Post by asdff »

gpvos wrote: post #178
rasz wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You pay extra to sleep 10 hours on a train versus 2 hours by plane at half the cost?

On a plane, you may have to get up extra early, or still lose half a day. Especially in Central/Eastern Europe, the prices aren't that high really. And, as GP already wrote, you save on one night in a hotel, which may offset the entire difference. Also, there is the environment. If that were factored in properly in the prices (and that's being worked on), the train would be a lot cheaper.

I don't think you can really consider the environment here as there are too many variables to consider in a reliable model. E.g. its not clear that replacing that entire planes worth of peoples trips with another routing would even net a gain, if people might have to do more circuitous routing that take more time and distance, or take different modes of transit that aren't a fully electrified rail that goes end to end, e.g. a lightly filled bus that has a much lower per passenger mpg than an airplane.

Re: Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

#185

Post by asdff »

config_yml wrote: post #132
rasz wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You pay extra to sleep 10 hours on a train versus 2 hours by plane at half the cost?

Add an hour commute to the airport, another hour at check-in and security and 10x the emissions: it's actually a fun experience going by night train, especially when traveling with kids.

Per passenger mpg between a train and a plane isn't all that far off. Planes tend to travel pretty full so per passenger mpg is pretty high, like 100mpg. You get better per passenger mpg with a train but the train needs to get decent ridership. Depending on where you are going, maybe the train and bus service doesn't get too much ridership and your flight in might actually work out to be the greenest way.

Re: Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

#186

Post by MattGaiser »

Findecanor wrote: post #148
MattGaiser wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are not treated like a criminal before you can board a train. I have only taken one relatively long distance train in Europe, but they had security checks on par with PreCheck. Bags still went through a scanner and still went through a metal detector.

Was it EuroStar? (channel tunnel) That's the only train service in Europe I've heard of that does any luggage check at all.

No, this was in Madrid to Barcelona on Renfe.

Re: Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

#187

Post by asdff »

geysersam wrote: post #169
explaininjs wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh… that’s an invitation for lobbyists and politicians to buggar the whole thing up for every self-serving interest imaginable. The simpler the better.

Flat rate just won't work, ever, it's a doomed idea. We need political decision about what kind of emissions are acceptable and what kinds are not. No way basic necessities, food, transportation should be taxed the same rate as luxury houses and yachts/private jets. It's not realistic.

This is why the game is really screwed up. To make these decisions when coming up with carbon credits, or any other decisions regarding resources in a market, policy makers have to defer to industry because they simply don't understand industry and will never have the time to fully understand it like a domain expert would. Now, its not necessarily that the industry's own scientists and experts are corrupt, but that the business models naturally disincentivize hard truths if they come at a cost to profit. Shareholders don't want to hear that their investment is being taxed above others in this case. They will hire lawyers to fight fight fight their battle until its won. There is no opposition here to that, no balance to that sort of reaction, so it continues unimpeded towards this way just as easily and unstoppable as a gunpowder reaction to flame. As such, as soon as you think about putting a restriction on industry, it will serve to benefit investors of that industry first and foremost as it will be penned by that same industry you seek to regulate.

Re: Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

#188

Post by asdff »

icegreentea2 wrote: post #81
betaby wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't work in Canada.

Canada's current carbon tax is at 65 CAD per ton of CO2, working out to roughly 15 cents per liter (typical gas price right now is 1.75ish per liter). The degree of tax is just too small right now to realistically expect major impact on behavior. We'll see what happens as tax continues to ramp.

The big issue I think with the tax is that its ultimately paid for by consumers and not capital, as a result behavior won't shift, people will just get poorer in need of more subsidy and wealth will be more concentrated. Rather than a carbon tax, we should tax wealth for carbon used to generate such wealth in the American economic system. We could do this by taxing the holdings directly, or having a progressive tax rate that is effectively zero for the sort of purchases a middle class individual will make in their life, and quite steep for the sort of purchases that are more common among the elite with substantially larger carbon footprints.

Re: Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

#189

Post by dzhiurgis »

reacharavindh wrote: post #175

I have taken the car train from Hamburg to Vienna as a family. Pure luxury and comfort! We drive from Denmark to Hamburg(with a 2 year old), and load the fully packed car(stroller, luggages gifts for the in-laws etc) into the train at a special entrance, and walk into the coaches. We booked a private cabin/room for more privacy and also because we have a two year old. There were quite comfortable bunk booths as well…

Something like this would cost $1000 in Australia
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