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Does Market Timing Work?

schwab.com

201–210 of 292 posts

Re: Does Market Timing Work?

#201
Generally good advice but some major investment decisions may not fit the fact pattern. The results can vary substantially, for example:

- Buying real estate before or after the 2008 real estate crash

- YOLO'ing on a specific stock/company/crypto before or after a bull run

I presume their advice becomes more solid the more you trade and the more diversified the investment is.

Re: Does Market Timing Work?

#202
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current system is mathematically unsustainable pretty much by the design of a certain political faction interested in demonstrating the incompetence of government. Removing the income cap—currently around $160k—on the social security tax would do a great deal to make social security sustainable (and more equitable).

If they remove the cap on retirement contributions they should also remove the cap on retirement payouts. I would love to see social security pay former CEOs millions of dollars per year:)

No, they shouldn't. SS is meant to prevent destitution, not enable luxury. Wealthy Americans owe the working and consumption classes whose sacrifices make their riches possible; there is no such obligation to ensure those elite earners get back even what they paid into that particular channel, at the expense of people who are much less well off, when they have other resources to draw from.

You might not think that's fair. I do. Even under this hypothetical regime, I know who I'd choose to be: rich and paying a ton in taxes, in a heartbeat.

Re: Does Market Timing Work?

#203
post #194
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m genuinely a little bit more productive with ChatGPT. A lot of tasks I do take 30 mins or a hours less, several times per week.

So a basically trivial improvement in other words.

How is that trivial? Even one task done a few times a week taking half an hour less is at least a 2% increase in productivity (assuming these tasks are work related and a 40 hour work week). "A lot" of such tasks would easily add up to 10%+.

Re: Does Market Timing Work?

#204
post #113

The problem with buy and hold and pretty much every current strategy is that its distorted by the huge 40 year bull market we've seen in the USA. Every American asset has gone up big time - of course "time in the market" is a good thing. If you look at Japanese or European stock markets they tell a very different story. Similarly the next 40 years in the USA could be a miserable time for investors. I can't believe ho…

I believe human ingenuity and power over the elements goes up 7% a year, of which, the stock market is a proxy for. We are a networked organism and good at leveraging innovation at a global scale through supply chains. I see no reason to be pessimistic, we have AI, we have better space flight, we constantly improving energy sources.

Productivity and GDP, which the stock market is a better proxy for, do not rise 7% a year.

Re: Does Market Timing Work?

#205
post #113

The problem with buy and hold and pretty much every current strategy is that its distorted by the huge 40 year bull market we've seen in the USA. Every American asset has gone up big time - of course "time in the market" is a good thing. If you look at Japanese or European stock markets they tell a very different story. Similarly the next 40 years in the USA could be a miserable time for investors. I can't believe ho…

There are probably multiple layers of feedback loops going on, who knows how things will pan out. There's a sufficiently large enough pool of investors out there that will buy broad ETFs like SCHB, SPY, VT, VTI, etc., on any dip or just continue to DCA a little of every paycheck into those just due to its history. The US is geographically isolated from potential threats for the most part unlike Europe and Japan, is relatively self-sufficient, super diversified and lots of international exposure, and no country has as much clout on the international stage as the US for the time being so I think it makes sense the US continues to do much better. Sometimes you have trends like emerging markets, cryptos, etc., but broad US stock market seems like the default choice for high returns so long as there is capital to be allocated.

Interest rates are the thing I think could change things, but who knows. If you can get a guaranteed 5% return that's pretty nice, but it's possible we just slide into being a more corrupt/untrustworthy country for investments or baby boomers suddenly taking a disproportionate amount of money out of the market as they retire, etc.,.

Re: Does Market Timing Work?

#206
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there are really just a few, it could be explained by chance. Warren Buffet is often cited in that group and yet, a blindfolded monkey would have done better than him in the past 20 years[0]. [0] https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/warren-buffett-has-underperfo...

And what about Renaissance Technologies? Is that just chance or luck?

A combination of luck, some skill and tax fraud.

Re: Does Market Timing Work?

#207
post #113

The problem with buy and hold and pretty much every current strategy is that its distorted by the huge 40 year bull market we've seen in the USA. Every American asset has gone up big time - of course "time in the market" is a good thing. If you look at Japanese or European stock markets they tell a very different story. Similarly the next 40 years in the USA could be a miserable time for investors. I can't believe ho…

I agree that the American stock market has been an outlier, and most Americans don't realize the extent to which that is true; it's good that you do. But compared to buying and holding a widely diversified and low cost portfolio, what was the better strategy for investors in other markets? What would be the better strategy for Americans over the next 40 years (not knowing if it will be a miserable time or not)?

I think this is a case of "time in the market" being the least worst option. The market may reward it, or it may not, but hard times are hard times and I don't see any obvious way to avoid them without exposing yourself to a lot more risk in other ways.

Re: Does Market Timing Work?

#209
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current system is mathematically unsustainable pretty much by the design of a certain political faction interested in demonstrating the incompetence of government. Removing the income cap—currently around $160k—on the social security tax would do a great deal to make social security sustainable (and more equitable).

If they remove the cap on retirement contributions they should also remove the cap on retirement payouts. I would love to see social security pay former CEOs millions of dollars per year:)

I don't understand why the mental model for SS is any different than any other service the government provides. People don't expect their tax payments to proportionally determine: their access to roads, law enforcement services, fire protection, access to GPS or weather data, etc. Government's purpose is to facilitate the common good. Some fortunate individuals are able to contribute more, some less fortunate individuals are able to contribute less.

I'm relatively lucky in that I do hit the SS income cap every year. And I think it's extremely stupid that my paycheck suddenly grows 6.2% well before the end of the year every year. I can absolutely afford to continue paying my 6.2% tax, just like everyone else, and not need special treatment when withdrawal time comes in retirement.

Re: Does Market Timing Work?

#210
post #194
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m genuinely a little bit more productive with ChatGPT. A lot of tasks I do take 30 mins or a hours less, several times per week.

So a basically trivial improvement in other words.

I believe his statement lies in the fact that wealth is not money, but productivity.

He's saying if every atom of the economy is n% more productive, that will grow the economy by n%.

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