Toyota Will Adopt Tesla-Style Cast Bodies That Might Be Impossible to Fix • Hacker News Board

Re: Toyota Will Adopt Tesla-Style Cast Bodies That Might Be Impossible to Fix

#11

Post by GenerocUsername » Sat, Oct 07, 2023, 5:50 PM UTC

tifik wrote: post #4

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #2

“cast bodies might be more difficult to fix in the event of major damage, such as a crash.” Raise your hand if you’ve ever had a car NOT be written off after “major damage”. The industry already doesn’t bother to fix cars, they just get scrapped, so I don’t see what the actual difference is.

That the car is written off doesnt mean it gets scrapped though. It usually gets auctioned, and if its fixable, some mechanic can buy it for peanuts and put it back on the market.

So why the write off nonsense. Just send it to a repair shop directly and if it cannot be repaired, then initiate a write off.

Sounds like extra steps for the profit of middle men

Re: Toyota Will Adopt Tesla-Style Cast Bodies That Might Be Impossible to Fix

#12

Post by Mountain_Skies » Sat, Oct 07, 2023, 5:52 PM UTC

bitbangboom wrote: post #5

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #2

“cast bodies might be more difficult to fix in the event of major damage, such as a crash.” Raise your hand if you’ve ever had a car NOT be written off after “major damage”. The industry already doesn’t bother to fix cars, they just get scrapped, so I don’t see what the actual difference is.

Yeah I feel like this is the next stepping stone on a path we have been on for years. I remember Rich Rebuilds got rear ended in his Rivian and the total repair bill was somewhere around $30K if I remember right. I really do wish repairability was considered more not less, but with safety standards, manufacturing costs, etc it seems like cars are racing towards the cliff of just “discarding” if they have a problem ju…

Wonder if that's the same Rivian that was in a YouTube video that popped up a couple of days ago where some specialty repair shop was able to use nontraditional repair methods to fix the damage at a fraction of the quoted $41,000 repair cost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKPfy5djvLc

Re: Toyota Will Adopt Tesla-Style Cast Bodies That Might Be Impossible to Fix

#13

Post by hn_throwaway_99 » Sat, Oct 07, 2023, 5:53 PM UTC

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #9

bitbangboom wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I feel like this is the next stepping stone on a path we have been on for years. I remember Rich Rebuilds got rear ended in his Rivian and the total repair bill was somewhere around $30K if I remember right. I really do wish repairability was considered more not less, but with safety standards, manufacturing costs, etc it seems like cars are racing towards the cliff of just “discarding” if they have a problem ju…

With EVs this problem is getting a lot worse. In latest-gen EVs the battery pack is a stressed member of the frame. Any type of collision that distorts the frame will also imply a deformation of the battery module, which means instant write-off. So if you think about it - if you first decide you need to go down the "structural battery" route to save cost and weight, you've already lost repairability if the frame is b…

Can you point to any references/examples of this? Not a challenge, but as an EV owner I didn't know this and I'm interested to learn more.

Re: Toyota Will Adopt Tesla-Style Cast Bodies That Might Be Impossible to Fix

#14

Post by brucethemoose2 » Sat, Oct 07, 2023, 5:54 PM UTC

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #9

bitbangboom wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I feel like this is the next stepping stone on a path we have been on for years. I remember Rich Rebuilds got rear ended in his Rivian and the total repair bill was somewhere around $30K if I remember right. I really do wish repairability was considered more not less, but with safety standards, manufacturing costs, etc it seems like cars are racing towards the cliff of just “discarding” if they have a problem ju…

With EVs this problem is getting a lot worse. In latest-gen EVs the battery pack is a stressed member of the frame. Any type of collision that distorts the frame will also imply a deformation of the battery module, which means instant write-off. So if you think about it - if you first decide you need to go down the "structural battery" route to save cost and weight, you've already lost repairability if the frame is b…

Maybe batteries will get good enough (hence small enough) to not become a stressed part of the frame in the near future.

This would also lighten EVs, which has a tremendous number of benefits.

Re: Toyota Will Adopt Tesla-Style Cast Bodies That Might Be Impossible to Fix

#15

Post by pengaru » Sat, Oct 07, 2023, 5:54 PM UTC

GenerocUsername wrote: post #11

tifik wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That the car is written off doesnt mean it gets scrapped though. It usually gets auctioned, and if its fixable, some mechanic can buy it for peanuts and put it back on the market.

So why the write off nonsense. Just send it to a repair shop directly and if it cannot be repaired, then initiate a write off. Sounds like extra steps for the profit of middle men

> So why the write off nonsense. Just send it to a repair shop directly and if it cannot be repaired, then initiate a write off.

Well to get the owner of the written-off car installed into a new vehicle of course! With a whole new loan and likely a higher insurance premium esp. if they "upgraded" in the process.

Re: Toyota Will Adopt Tesla-Style Cast Bodies That Might Be Impossible to Fix

#16

Post by throw9away6 » Sat, Oct 07, 2023, 5:55 PM UTC

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #2

“cast bodies might be more difficult to fix in the event of major damage, such as a crash.” Raise your hand if you’ve ever had a car NOT be written off after “major damage”. The industry already doesn’t bother to fix cars, they just get scrapped, so I don’t see what the actual difference is.

I think having cast body be written off is preferable to having forever damaged car

Re: Toyota Will Adopt Tesla-Style Cast Bodies That Might Be Impossible to Fix

#17

Post by Mountain_Skies » Sat, Oct 07, 2023, 5:55 PM UTC

GenerocUsername wrote: post #11

tifik wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That the car is written off doesnt mean it gets scrapped though. It usually gets auctioned, and if its fixable, some mechanic can buy it for peanuts and put it back on the market.

So why the write off nonsense. Just send it to a repair shop directly and if it cannot be repaired, then initiate a write off. Sounds like extra steps for the profit of middle men

Risk mostly. Many of the vehicles won't be repairable and will just go to the scrap yard. Some will appear to repairable but after some effort end up scrapped too. And some will be repairable but only by guys who specialize in such things and have customers willing to buy a retitled salvage vehicle. For the insurance company, it's not worth the effort and added risk. That someone else can make some money off the missed margin isn't a big deal to the insurance company.

Re: Toyota Will Adopt Tesla-Style Cast Bodies That Might Be Impossible to Fix

#18

Post by dylan604 » Sat, Oct 07, 2023, 5:55 PM UTC

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #2

“cast bodies might be more difficult to fix in the event of major damage, such as a crash.” Raise your hand if you’ve ever had a car NOT be written off after “major damage”. The industry already doesn’t bother to fix cars, they just get scrapped, so I don’t see what the actual difference is.

i can't imagine what insurance company premiums are going to be when they figure out how much they're going to be paying out for each incident with one of these.

Re: Toyota Will Adopt Tesla-Style Cast Bodies That Might Be Impossible to Fix

#19

Post by robennals » Sat, Oct 07, 2023, 5:55 PM UTC

GenerocUsername wrote: post #11

tifik wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That the car is written off doesnt mean it gets scrapped though. It usually gets auctioned, and if its fixable, some mechanic can buy it for peanuts and put it back on the market.

So why the write off nonsense. Just send it to a repair shop directly and if it cannot be repaired, then initiate a write off. Sounds like extra steps for the profit of middle men

Because it wouldn’t be economic to repair it to “good as new” status.

The people who buy salvage titled cars are usually happy to drive a car that doesn’t work quite right if they get a killer deal for it.

Re: Toyota Will Adopt Tesla-Style Cast Bodies That Might Be Impossible to Fix

#20

Post by hn_throwaway_99 » Sat, Oct 07, 2023, 5:56 PM UTC

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #2

“cast bodies might be more difficult to fix in the event of major damage, such as a crash.” Raise your hand if you’ve ever had a car NOT be written off after “major damage”. The industry already doesn’t bother to fix cars, they just get scrapped, so I don’t see what the actual difference is.

Hand raised.

Of course, your question is basically a tautology if you define "major damage" as "that which causes a car to get totaled". The whole concern is that, with these cast bodies, damage that would have been considered fixable or minor in the past now becomes an instant write off.