Java 9 with GPU processing, Java 10 will be all-OOP without primitives • Hacker News Board

Re: Java 9 with GPU processing, Java 10 will be all-OOP without primitives

#121

Post by noselasd » Sat, Mar 31, 2012, 10:12 AM UTC

sek wrote: post #20

JunkDNA wrote: post #3

Wow, how can you seriously plan releases of a programming language out to 2021? That is an eternity in this industry. Even 2015 for JDK 9 seems mighty far off, especially accounting for the usual slippage of release dates with big software projects.

Why don't they start now and build Java 2.0 from ground up instead of Java 10 for 2017? That would be way faster and they learned so much by now to make a great successor. Who wants a Java 1.x in 2040?

Because backwards compatibility matters more. There's anyway many other alternatives to Java if you need something else but still use the JVM.

Re: Java 9 with GPU processing, Java 10 will be all-OOP without primitives

#122

Post by nknight » Sat, Mar 31, 2012, 10:35 AM UTC

shangrila wrote: post #120

moonboots wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The netscape rewrite became Firefox.

Yeah no kidding. That's one thing people seem to forget about that Joel article ... the new code base he's mocking went on to become the only browser capable of taking on Microsoft's juggernaut for many years. It was faster & better than everything else out there. Eventually the only thing capable of overtaking it was WebKit ... another from-scratch code base!

That new codebase was iterated on for five years before a viable browser was released, and two more before Firefox 1.0 appeared.

The history of the WebKit codebase stretches back as far as Gecko. The earliest KDE HTML work I can definitively establish is in 1997. We got Konquerer in 2000, but Safari didn't emerge until 2003.

5-7 years before something other than IE could again be competitive... Do you really think that disproves Joel's point? I think it may be quite the opposite...

Re: Java 9 with GPU processing, Java 10 will be all-OOP without primitives

#123

Post by mgkimsal » Sat, Mar 31, 2012, 11:42 AM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #108

mgkimsal wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current crop of smaller companies and bootstrappers will evolve in to the next generation's "established" companies. No one is starting a company today with COBOL. How many are starting today with Java? Not rhetorical - I know some are - just wondering how this will play out over time...

There are only three factors Java is getting used today. 1. 'Hiring the cheap programmer' factor. 2. 'The Oracle' factor. 3. 'The pointy haired boss' factor. And those are not awesome reasons to stay alive.

Interesting. I'm actually using Java on projects, but via Groovy. Others I know are coming from Ruby in to Clojure. So, "Java" as such isn't the direct factor, but JVM is a common one. Will it be enough to keep it from COBOL-status?

Re: Java 9 with GPU processing, Java 10 will be all-OOP without primitives

#124

Post by gsharm » Sat, Mar 31, 2012, 12:23 PM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #103

spacemanaki wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, Gilad Bracha, Philip Wadler, Martin Odersky... all drunken, retarded monkeys.

The problem really isn't with a particular component in Java. The problem with Java is, Java came as a quick relief to people who had problems with managing memory themselves. Java solved what seemed to be the most pressing problem at that time. Times have changed, today I have completely forgotten some thing called as 'memory management by programmer', today its a given that a modern language today should do that by…

What are your thoughts on C#?

Re: Java 9 with GPU processing, Java 10 will be all-OOP without primitives

#125

Post by ajryan » Sat, Mar 31, 2012, 12:46 PM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #104

samspot wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, there is nothing wrong with long range planning. Planning this far out allows you LOTS of time to iterate on your plans, making them better.

I think ultra long term planning is what you call 'premature optimization'

Premature optimizations are actually carried out before their future impact is known. Planning is different.

Re: Java 9 with GPU processing, Java 10 will be all-OOP without primitives

#126

Post by edwinnathaniel » Sat, Mar 31, 2012, 12:57 PM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #110

edwinnathaniel wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Choosing Java for everyday projects is a long term disaster? What about Android apps? What about solid back-end? What about Google AppEngine-Java? People are still using Java for everyday projects and I don't see a disaster coming anytime soon.

According to me the disaster has already occurred. The only section of programmers using Java day in and out for their projects are low price substandard developers who can't write a line of code without the IDE doing autocomplete at every key stroke. Coming to Android and other Google initiative they tend to happen only because the tooling, documentation support and a large pool of programmers that exist. Java today…

I use a few prog. langs. and still prefer Java in many cases because the tooling is more advanced than any other language platforms.

Thank you for insulting Hadoop, Hbase, Cassandra, GWT commiters and developers at Google, Twitter, LinkedIN, and many more smart people who happened to choose Java.

Nice reply with no factual support.

Re: Java 9 with GPU processing, Java 10 will be all-OOP without primitives

#127

Post by djhworld » Sat, Mar 31, 2012, 1:22 PM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #110

edwinnathaniel wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Choosing Java for everyday projects is a long term disaster? What about Android apps? What about solid back-end? What about Google AppEngine-Java? People are still using Java for everyday projects and I don't see a disaster coming anytime soon.

According to me the disaster has already occurred. The only section of programmers using Java day in and out for their projects are low price substandard developers who can't write a line of code without the IDE doing autocomplete at every key stroke. Coming to Android and other Google initiative they tend to happen only because the tooling, documentation support and a large pool of programmers that exist. Java today…

I do Java in my day job and I agree, I couldn't write much Java code without an IDE, mainly because Java is a horrible language to cut code in and you do need to write a lot of boilerplate for many Java EE patterns.

The IDE removes that problem somewhat.

It's not that Java coders "can't write a line of code without an IDE", it's Java coders don't have the patience to write pure Java in a text editor.

You're also forgetting that a lot of enterprise applications consist of many many .java source files for each class. Trying to deal with all of that manually becomes a real headache

Re: Java 9 with GPU processing, Java 10 will be all-OOP without primitives

#128

Post by mark_l_watson » Sat, Mar 31, 2012, 2:20 PM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #103

spacemanaki wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, Gilad Bracha, Philip Wadler, Martin Odersky... all drunken, retarded monkeys.

The problem really isn't with a particular component in Java. The problem with Java is, Java came as a quick relief to people who had problems with managing memory themselves. Java solved what seemed to be the most pressing problem at that time. Times have changed, today I have completely forgotten some thing called as 'memory management by programmer', today its a given that a modern language today should do that by…

I hear you re: code bloat with too much boilerplate.

I stopped using get/set methods years ago in favor of public instance variables. Yeah, I understand the potential problems with kicking encapsulation to the street and into the gutter (I have written several Java books and I have done many projects in Java, so I am not a noob).

I have also started to favor using unchecked exceptions - that also makes code a lot shorter. This is also Controversial.

Re: Java 9 with GPU processing, Java 10 will be all-OOP without primitives

#129

Post by kamaal » Sat, Mar 31, 2012, 3:34 PM UTC

mark_l_watson wrote: post #128

kamaal wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem really isn't with a particular component in Java. The problem with Java is, Java came as a quick relief to people who had problems with managing memory themselves. Java solved what seemed to be the most pressing problem at that time. Times have changed, today I have completely forgotten some thing called as 'memory management by programmer', today its a given that a modern language today should do that by…

I hear you re: code bloat with too much boilerplate. I stopped using get/set methods years ago in favor of public instance variables. Yeah, I understand the potential problems with kicking encapsulation to the street and into the gutter (I have written several Java books and I have done many projects in Java, so I am not a noob). I have also started to favor using unchecked exceptions - that also makes code a lot sho…

Forgive my brevity, mate!

Its been a long day, I've been working non stop since 6 am this morning(I stay in India, Bangalore) and its 9 in the night now. I've been working on some Java code.

The AbstractSomethingFactoryFactoryFactoryClasses.java have taken a toll on me. I'm yet to rewind from the depth's of piles and piles of try/catch statements and Object.someMethod() methods buried deep in abyss of com.something.somethingElse.somethingInWonderland.whereTheHellAreWe folders.

But I will take your advice seriously though.

EDIT : After reading your bio and looking at your work on your site. I am your new fan :)

Re: Java 9 with GPU processing, Java 10 will be all-OOP without primitives

#130

Post by kamaal » Sat, Mar 31, 2012, 3:42 PM UTC

edwinnathaniel wrote: post #126

kamaal wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to me the disaster has already occurred. The only section of programmers using Java day in and out for their projects are low price substandard developers who can't write a line of code without the IDE doing autocomplete at every key stroke. Coming to Android and other Google initiative they tend to happen only because the tooling, documentation support and a large pool of programmers that exist. Java today…

I use a few prog. langs. and still prefer Java in many cases because the tooling is more advanced than any other language platforms. Thank you for insulting Hadoop, Hbase, Cassandra, GWT commiters and developers at Google, Twitter, LinkedIN, and many more smart people who happened to choose Java. Nice reply with no factual support.

I don't if its 'chose' or 'forced to choose' by pointy haired managers, mate!

By the way when given the choice its clear what the founders choose. Larry Page and Sergey Brin chose C++ and Python and Mark Zuckerberg chose Php. Twitter started out on Rails.

So its clear the Java mess seeps in only when the hackers are cleared from the scene and the layers of management begin to take control.