Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A Woman’s Story

raganwald.posterous.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 210 posts

Re: A Woman’s Story

#201

Post by rmc »

moldbug wrote: post #191
rmc wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you wanted to identify such privileges, what would they look like? People have done this already, this is what they look like: White Privilege Checklist: http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html Male Privilege Checklist: http://www.amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/ Heterosexual Privilege Checklist: http://www.cs.earlham.edu/~hyrax/personal/files/student_res/... Cis gender privilege checklist:…

Wonderful! What I want you to notice, now, is how abstract every item on that checklist is. As compared to really concrete, obvious privileges like: 450 free points on your SAT. Could that be the first entry on our 'Black Privilege Checklist?' What would be the second? Now, let's imagine you design a sociological experiment in which randomly selected individuals of each race can exchange their privileges (and/or hand…

What I want you to notice, now, is how abstract every item on that checklist is.

Abstract?! They aren't abstract, some are very very concrete. If you're straight, you can get married in just about every country in the world, and, in nearly every country. If you're a straight married man, you don't have to worry about saying "my wife" in a new place.

People don't sit men down in secondary school and tell them how to avoid being raped, men don't worry about their drink being spiked.

etc.

Re: A Woman’s Story

#202

Post by hazov »

ugh wrote: post #78

Goodbye HN. After repeatedly demonstrating your racism and sexism I just cannot take it anymore. It was nice knowing you.

Don't go please, I really appreciate your comments and submissions, although I'm really not active here. You're one of the few users that I always read comments from, raganwald also is one.

There's always a histrionic minority that read about some research and always come here bragging about it (ie, mainly about women, blacks or whatever else), this type of people, although mainly libertarian have a real dislike for the individual that is telling of their real beliefs.

Re: A Woman’s Story

#203

Post by DanBC »

ugh wrote: post #78

Goodbye HN. After repeatedly demonstrating your racism and sexism I just cannot take it anymore. It was nice knowing you.

I don't know if it makes any difference to you, but some people (at least me) have been down-voting and flagging the obvious troll in this thread.

It is frustrating that people are keen to feed that troll.

Re: A Woman’s Story

#204

Post by moldbug »

rmc wrote: post #201
moldbug wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wonderful! What I want you to notice, now, is how abstract every item on that checklist is. As compared to really concrete, obvious privileges like: 450 free points on your SAT. Could that be the first entry on our 'Black Privilege Checklist?' What would be the second? Now, let's imagine you design a sociological experiment in which randomly selected individuals of each race can exchange their privileges (and/or hand…

What I want you to notice, now, is how abstract every item on that checklist is. Abstract?! They aren't abstract, some are very very concrete. If you're straight, you can get married in just about every country in the world, and, in nearly every country. If you're a straight married man, you don't have to worry about saying "my wife" in a new place. People don't sit men down in secondary school and tell them how to a…

I thought we were just focusing on the race checklist. (I actually am a straight married man, but from force of habit I always say "my girlfriend.")

But let's pretend we're talking about my son. And let's find a racial handicap from the '50s which doesn't exist anymore.

"Young man," I say, "here's a deal for you. On the downside, you can't marry anyone not the same race as you."

"That's kind of uncool, Dad," he says. "What's the upside?"

"450 free points on your SAT. Also, you basically can't be fired from a job, ever. Also..." and I run through my Black Privilege Checklist.

What do you think he's going to say? What would you say?

Re: A Woman’s Story

#205

Post by jongraehl »

moldbug wrote: post #191
rmc wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you wanted to identify such privileges, what would they look like? People have done this already, this is what they look like: White Privilege Checklist: http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html Male Privilege Checklist: http://www.amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/ Heterosexual Privilege Checklist: http://www.cs.earlham.edu/~hyrax/personal/files/student_res/... Cis gender privilege checklist:…

Wonderful! What I want you to notice, now, is how abstract every item on that checklist is. As compared to really concrete, obvious privileges like: 450 free points on your SAT. Could that be the first entry on our 'Black Privilege Checklist?' What would be the second? Now, let's imagine you design a sociological experiment in which randomly selected individuals of each race can exchange their privileges (and/or hand…

It's true that the mechanism and value of "(succesful group) privilege" are difficult to quantify in a way that explicitly engineered (counter-)measures aren't. Further, it would be impossible to reassign them via contract unless you're a most imaginative thought-experimenter.

Re: A Woman’s Story

#206

Post by moldbug »

jongraehl wrote: post #205
moldbug wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wonderful! What I want you to notice, now, is how abstract every item on that checklist is. As compared to really concrete, obvious privileges like: 450 free points on your SAT. Could that be the first entry on our 'Black Privilege Checklist?' What would be the second? Now, let's imagine you design a sociological experiment in which randomly selected individuals of each race can exchange their privileges (and/or hand…

It's true that the mechanism and value of "(succesful group) privilege" are difficult to quantify in a way that explicitly engineered (counter-)measures aren't. Further, it would be impossible to reassign them via contract unless you're a most imaginative thought-experimenter.

It's true that the mechanism and value of "(succesful group) privilege" are difficult to quantify in a way that explicitly engineered (counter-)measures aren't.

That's exactly right! Moreover, there's a very important reason your N-rays are so hard to detect...

Look at it another way. You step into a time machine and emerge in 1938 Berlin - speaking German. Your task: to explain and convince, by pure reason alone, that there is actually no such thing as the international Jewish conspiracy. Expect some downvotes!

Or we could go all science-fiction. The Federation selects you as the first Federation Ambassador to the ice planet of Goth. The people of Goth come in two categories - Ostrogoth and Visigoth. Conventional wisdom among the Ostrogoths is that they are generally oppressed by the Visigoths - and vice versa.

They can't be right. It's your first task, as Federation Ambassador, to construct objective tests that accurately measure whether the Visigoths are sticking it to the Ostrogoths or vice versa.

For instance, you might ask: how many Visigoths are killed extralegally by Ostrogoths? And vice versa? Are young Visigoths, or young Ostrogoths, subjected to the numerus clausus? Etc, etc, etc.

You could build up a spreadsheet of these types of human-rights violations - which would greatly assist you in deciding, as a mere neutral observer, which faction of Goths is holding the whip and which taking it in the tail.

Of course, you're not the Federation Ambassador and neither am I. But even if you're a Goth yourself, why not think this way? Isn't it, at the very least, refreshingly different?

Re: A Woman’s Story

#207

Post by epitron »

tesseractive wrote: post #55
raganwald wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it’s worth, the test was probably IBM’s Programmer Aptitude Test, I can find references to it going back to 1950 or so. http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/IBM-ProgApti-120-6762-2.html

This story made me smile an awful lot. Thanks for posting it. It would be even better if women and people from traditionally disadvantaged ethnic groups didn't have to jump through all the extra hoops, but it's nice to see that even the extra hoops didn't stop someone smart and determined enough.

Determination is a quite powerful force. As Calvin Coolidge once said:

Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.

Re: A Woman’s Story

#208

Post by mistercow »

philwelch wrote: post #134
mistercow wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well in this case, the conflation of race and culture is virtually a requirement. As far as we know, you can't do much really to bias an aptitude test in terms of biology because there is little correlation between race and biology¹. On the other hand, culture and race are relatively tightly correlated, so if you want to bias an aptitude test with respect to race, the surest way to do it is to bias it with respect to…

> A black southerner of voting age was usually either a former slave, or the child of a former slave, and slaves did not have access to basic education. So a literacy test was, at that time, a racially biased test. That wasn't the whole problem. The literacy tests were only administered to black voters in the first place because of a "grandfather clase"--anyone whose father and grandfather both had the right to vote…

That's true. I was simplifying because even without a grandfather clause, any literacy test would have been racially biased at that time.

Re: A Woman’s Story

#210

Post by k00kykelly »

einhverfr wrote: post #129

Fascinating article. I am reminded of things my grandmother said about breaking into the field of physics (and later really helping greatly expand the field of astrophysics). I am also reminded of women complaining about the problems with trying to raise a family and get tenure as science professors today, and conclude that in many ways my grandmother had it easy. So it sounds like Gwen's experience wasn't unique. It…

I think we are more hostile to women now than in the past if only because we say we aren't hostile at all and in the past women and minorities knew they needed to fight their way in. If you know you're up for a fight vs just thinking you're evaluating possibilities you're approach is going to be different. Basically, since the younger generation has bought into the idea that sexism/racism is on its way out they are more likely to believe someone when they say - you can't be any good. And why be persistent if maybe you aren't actually any good?
Post reply on HN