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Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again

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Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again

#51

Post by krupan »

k__ wrote: post #12
ferfumarma wrote: post #5

Crypto does have utility, but there's only room for one: bitcoin. Everything else is just a me-too derivative that can add nothing except the possibility of central control (like the "digital dollar"). The ability to instantly transmit the hardest asset known to man (harder than gold, in the sense of inflation resistance) does have utility, regardless of what critics say. It has downsides too: the ability to be lost…

In my opinion, Bitcoin was just the low hanging fruit. Proof of Work is probably the way to go, but please make it useful work.

Securing the Bitcoin network is the useful work.

Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again

#52

Post by kylebenzle »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #39
JSavageOne wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it a scam if the people buying it know exactly what they're buying, and the code is all open source? The word "scam" implies someone is being misled. How is cryptocurrency any more of a scam than fiat currency, ie. digits in the computer of some private bank or central bank?

> How is it a scam if the people buying it know exactly what they're buying, and the code is all open source? The word "scam" implies someone is being misled. This is astonishing mental gymnastics. Take the average crypto investor and ask them how the blockchain works. Not marketing fluff: the actual steps in pseudo-code for literally any step of the process. "The code is all there bro" is an astonishing amount of ba…

You have it oddly exactly backwards. I find that people that are not smart enough to understand Bitcoin generally respond by getting mad about Bitcoin or ignoring it.

People that first understand it eventually find Monero and BCH and start investing everything they can afford.

Of course idiots can be on both sides.

Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again

#53

Post by dmoy »

nostrademons wrote: post #48
dragontamer wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You just described the modern banking system. Yes, the government will give you guarantees for your stored funds to some extent, but when shit hits the fan, you are on your own (example 2008 financial crisis). How much money did your savings account lose in 2008? Or your checking account?

Money market funds broke the buck in 2008: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/09/money-mar...

Dude

One money market fund, which was a tiny tiny percentage of overall money market funds, broke the buck by like 3%

Also money market funds aren't insured (typically)

Also, money market funds for sweep now have much stricter regulations to prevent even that from occurring again.

Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again

#54

Post by kylebenzle »

the_gastropod wrote: post #33
JSavageOne wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it a scam if the people buying it know exactly what they're buying, and the code is all open source? The word "scam" implies someone is being misled. How is cryptocurrency any more of a scam than fiat currency, ie. digits in the computer of some private bank or central bank?

Cryptocurrencies are scams in much the same way MLM schemes are scams. Everyone knows what they’re buying into. But their expectations of outcomes are greatly skewed by the vested interests of existing participants.

No one with a brain or in a position of power has ever made a legitimate claim that Monero or Bitcoin Cash is a scam.

Just empty attacks and idiots.

Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again

#56

Post by krupan »

notamy wrote: post #11
ferfumarma wrote: post #5

Crypto does have utility, but there's only room for one: bitcoin. Everything else is just a me-too derivative that can add nothing except the possibility of central control (like the "digital dollar"). The ability to instantly transmit the hardest asset known to man (harder than gold, in the sense of inflation resistance) does have utility, regardless of what critics say. It has downsides too: the ability to be lost…

> People on HN are smarter than me, and they all seem to hate bitcoin with passion, but I haven't yet understood why. I think it might be harder to recognize its value when it's part of your implicit cultural background: the dollar is money. Because if BTC is going to be my money for transactions, I actively do not want any of the speculation on its price. It’s not useful for normal transactions if the price can swin…

You do realize that people heavily speculate on the price of dollars, stocks, real estate, etc., don't you? ;-)

In all seriousness, we do understand what you are saying, bitcoin's price relative to the things you want to buy does fluctuate pretty heavily right now because it is still very much in the early adoption phase. But eventually that will even out.

Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again

#57

Post by cjbgkagh »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #3

Crypto and NFTs are the ultimate scam. It's wooden nickels, the Brooklyn Bridge and Bernie Madoff all taken to their ultimate logical conclusion --- something with no intrinsic value whatsoever (electrons) is being exchanged for real functioning currency. But what really sets the crypto scam apart is the fact that no is really lying about the fundamental nature of the transaction. No one is hiding the fact that by bu…

The fiat money system also operates on faith, but that faith is in the government so by your definition that's ok I guess. It seems that the modern left is adopting the government as their own. Personally, I trust the government about the same amount as I trust big companies, not at all. In my view the current fiat money system is a very old legalized scam around which there is quite a lot of academic contortion and opaque jargon to try to justify its existence - funded by those who benefit from it. Unwinding the scam would be political suicide as it would crush the perceived wealth of the populus.

This is not to say that crypto isn't so infested with scams that they're now inseparable. I spread my trust around thinly across many countries, banks, and financial instruments with very little of it in crypto. My hopes is that crypto will mature and become boring but useful but do believe we're still a long way away from that.

Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again

#58

Post by krupan »

dukeyukey wrote: post #7
ferfumarma wrote: post #5

Crypto does have utility, but there's only room for one: bitcoin. Everything else is just a me-too derivative that can add nothing except the possibility of central control (like the "digital dollar"). The ability to instantly transmit the hardest asset known to man (harder than gold, in the sense of inflation resistance) does have utility, regardless of what critics say. It has downsides too: the ability to be lost…

> People on HN are smarter than me, and they all seem to hate bitcoin with passion, but I haven't yet understood why "Hate" is a strong word, but I dislike Bitcoin because so much of its value doesn't come from utility, but from speculation. People rarely buy Bitcoin to actually use it, but instead because they hope/expect the price will go up. And that's what leads to cases like SBF. > and understand that the dollar…

People are speculating on Bitcoin for different reasons, but many of us are doing so because we have examined it closely and seen it's utility. It is still very early in the adoption phase and so it's hard to see the utility in practice right now, but as you learn more about our current financial system and how Bitcoin works, the potential of Bitcoin is pretty astounding.

Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again

#59

Post by AnthonyMouse »

hudon wrote: post #31
fastball wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solving double-spend in a distributed / decentralized system sounds like a guarantee to me?

It only seems to solve it in theory. However in a world of centralized mining where devs have high influence on how forks are treated, the double spend problem is still a problem. This is because what distinguishes forks can be their “validity”, not their proof-of-work, and fork validity is decided by humans and subject to politics and fraud.

Value is always decided by humans. The question is, is it decided in a distributed way via general consensus, or in a centralized way that exposes you to the whims of unaccountable bureaucrats?

Bitcoin devs can do whatever they want, except that there is no law putting them in charge so if they attempt to commit fraud they lose everyone's respect which was the only thing giving them any power, and they get replaced by someone else. Which they don't want, which keeps pressure on them to behave well.

Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again

#60

Post by dragontamer »

nostrademons wrote: post #48
dragontamer wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You just described the modern banking system. Yes, the government will give you guarantees for your stored funds to some extent, but when shit hits the fan, you are on your own (example 2008 financial crisis). How much money did your savings account lose in 2008? Or your checking account?

Money market funds broke the buck in 2008: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/09/money-mar...

Cool story bro. But answer my question.

How much money did you lose in your SAVINGS account, or CHECKING account?

Don't move the goalposts on me. I know what you are trying to do rhetorically.

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