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Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again

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Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again

#31

Post by hudon »

fastball wrote: post #20
jqpabc123 wrote: post #3

Crypto and NFTs are the ultimate scam. It's wooden nickels, the Brooklyn Bridge and Bernie Madoff all taken to their ultimate logical conclusion --- something with no intrinsic value whatsoever (electrons) is being exchanged for real functioning currency. But what really sets the crypto scam apart is the fact that no is really lying about the fundamental nature of the transaction. No one is hiding the fact that by bu…

Solving double-spend in a distributed / decentralized system sounds like a guarantee to me?

It only seems to solve it in theory. However in a world of centralized mining where devs have high influence on how forks are treated, the double spend problem is still a problem. This is because what distinguishes forks can be their “validity”, not their proof-of-work, and fork validity is decided by humans and subject to politics and fraud.

Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again

#32

Post by rvz »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #3

Crypto and NFTs are the ultimate scam. It's wooden nickels, the Brooklyn Bridge and Bernie Madoff all taken to their ultimate logical conclusion --- something with no intrinsic value whatsoever (electrons) is being exchanged for real functioning currency. But what really sets the crypto scam apart is the fact that no is really lying about the fundamental nature of the transaction. No one is hiding the fact that by bu…

The cat is out of the bag on this one. Can't be 100% stopped or shutdown.

Many have tried stopping it for 15 years and unfortunately they are still wasting their time trying to do so.

Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again

#33

Post by the_gastropod »

JSavageOne wrote: post #23
jqpabc123 wrote: post #3

Crypto and NFTs are the ultimate scam. It's wooden nickels, the Brooklyn Bridge and Bernie Madoff all taken to their ultimate logical conclusion --- something with no intrinsic value whatsoever (electrons) is being exchanged for real functioning currency. But what really sets the crypto scam apart is the fact that no is really lying about the fundamental nature of the transaction. No one is hiding the fact that by bu…

How is it a scam if the people buying it know exactly what they're buying, and the code is all open source? The word "scam" implies someone is being misled. How is cryptocurrency any more of a scam than fiat currency, ie. digits in the computer of some private bank or central bank?

Cryptocurrencies are scams in much the same way MLM schemes are scams. Everyone knows what they’re buying into. But their expectations of outcomes are greatly skewed by the vested interests of existing participants.

Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again

#34

Post by foobarian »

kouru225 wrote: post #21
jqpabc123 wrote: post #3

Crypto and NFTs are the ultimate scam. It's wooden nickels, the Brooklyn Bridge and Bernie Madoff all taken to their ultimate logical conclusion --- something with no intrinsic value whatsoever (electrons) is being exchanged for real functioning currency. But what really sets the crypto scam apart is the fact that no is really lying about the fundamental nature of the transaction. No one is hiding the fact that by bu…

Ngl having a shared global decentralized database that’s you can develop on sounds pretty nice to me. Definitely wouldn’t call that a scam. Maybe it’s overvalued though… As someone who’s dabbled in the art world, I think people underestimate how important provenance is to an art piece. Having a decentralized system that can automatically keep a paper trail and is seamlessly connected to an automated market/auction se…

> Maybe it’s overvalued though…

I think the problems started when people started treating crypto currencies as investments instead of, well, currencies. I think the BTC jump from low 100s into 6 digits territory is probably what precipitated the craze, making a lot of people go berserk and spawned a whole cottage industry.

Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again

#35

Post by krupan »

adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #13
ferfumarma wrote: post #5

Crypto does have utility, but there's only room for one: bitcoin. Everything else is just a me-too derivative that can add nothing except the possibility of central control (like the "digital dollar"). The ability to instantly transmit the hardest asset known to man (harder than gold, in the sense of inflation resistance) does have utility, regardless of what critics say. It has downsides too: the ability to be lost…

The main problem with bitcoin is it's fundamentally a terrible currency. With a transaction time of between 30 minutes and 16 hours, throughput of 7 transactions per second, and an energy consumption comparable to a medium sized country, it's an obviously awful currency for anything other than selling large quantities of drugs, ransom payments, or gambling.

You are talking about settlement times of Bitcoin transactions. Yes, those take 10 minutes at best, or roughly around an hour if you want to be very confident that the funds have settled. Settlement times on dollars is generally 3 days at best.

The lightning network on top of Bitcoin gives you credit card speed transaction times, with settlement still happening on the Bitcoin layer in minutes not days.

Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again

#36

Post by dig1 »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #3

Crypto and NFTs are the ultimate scam. It's wooden nickels, the Brooklyn Bridge and Bernie Madoff all taken to their ultimate logical conclusion --- something with no intrinsic value whatsoever (electrons) is being exchanged for real functioning currency. But what really sets the crypto scam apart is the fact that no is really lying about the fundamental nature of the transaction. No one is hiding the fact that by bu…

> No one is hiding the fact that by buying crypto, you are exchanging your legal working currency for nothing more than an entry in a database with no real guarantees of any kind --- legal or otherwise

You just described the modern banking system. Yes, the government will give you guarantees for your stored funds to some extent, but when shit hits the fan, you are on your own (example 2008 financial crisis).

> All crypto really does is provide a quasi-viable excuse to entice people to lie to themselves about economic reality and what we call "money".

The same can be applied to the modern stock market. How many top players bring actual value, are sustainable, and can live more than 6 months without pumping stocks (and company valuation) through social media nonsense and other accounting tricks?

Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again

#37

Post by pixl97 »

pfisch wrote: post #19
pixl97 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and they all seem to hate bitcoin with passion, but I haven't yet understood why The dollar buys drugs, it buys guns, it buys terrible things. But it also buys bread and pays your rent. The interface a large portion of us has had with bitcoin is speculation and cybercrime. "Your computer has been encrypted, please insert X bitcoin to continue" is not a great interface for making someone have a good feeling about a p…

People don't really buy things on a daily basis with gold either, and 99% of its valuation is based on speculation.

Hence the dollar is not pinned to the price of gold.

Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again

#38

Post by cruunchMuncher »

dig1 wrote: post #36
jqpabc123 wrote: post #3

Crypto and NFTs are the ultimate scam. It's wooden nickels, the Brooklyn Bridge and Bernie Madoff all taken to their ultimate logical conclusion --- something with no intrinsic value whatsoever (electrons) is being exchanged for real functioning currency. But what really sets the crypto scam apart is the fact that no is really lying about the fundamental nature of the transaction. No one is hiding the fact that by bu…

> No one is hiding the fact that by buying crypto, you are exchanging your legal working currency for nothing more than an entry in a database with no real guarantees of any kind --- legal or otherwise You just described the modern banking system. Yes, the government will give you guarantees for your stored funds to some extent , but when shit hits the fan, you are on your own (example 2008 financial crisis). > All c…

[dead]

Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again

#39

Post by ToucanLoucan »

JSavageOne wrote: post #23
jqpabc123 wrote: post #3

Crypto and NFTs are the ultimate scam. It's wooden nickels, the Brooklyn Bridge and Bernie Madoff all taken to their ultimate logical conclusion --- something with no intrinsic value whatsoever (electrons) is being exchanged for real functioning currency. But what really sets the crypto scam apart is the fact that no is really lying about the fundamental nature of the transaction. No one is hiding the fact that by bu…

How is it a scam if the people buying it know exactly what they're buying, and the code is all open source? The word "scam" implies someone is being misled. How is cryptocurrency any more of a scam than fiat currency, ie. digits in the computer of some private bank or central bank?

> How is it a scam if the people buying it know exactly what they're buying, and the code is all open source? The word "scam" implies someone is being misled.

This is astonishing mental gymnastics. Take the average crypto investor and ask them how the blockchain works. Not marketing fluff: the actual steps in pseudo-code for literally any step of the process.

"The code is all there bro" is an astonishing amount of bad faith. Yeah, it is. Big deal. I've been a software developer for my entire adult life, but I don't work in cryptography, so I can't tell you a single damn thing about how blockchains work. The average investor in crypto, the influencers that peddle it, the whales that flooded the market with money? None of them understand it even slightly. I'd bet my life savings on it.

> How is cryptocurrency any more of a scam than fiat currency, ie. digits in the computer of some private bank or central bank?

A short, non-exhaustive list of differences:

- Crypto has basically zero consumer protections and makes the implementing of them extremely difficult by it's nature

- It is "anonymous" (actually pseudonymous) unless you are technically inclined enough to interact with the chain yourself, with your own software. "Normies" get to use platforms built by... somebody? Who maybe did it right? Probably. If they did it wrong though good luck getting your money back!

- Complete lack of any oversight of any regulatory body, which is a selling point, up until there actually are those, which are the large miners, stakeholders and exchanges

- Runaway deflation is not only a possibility, it is the goal of all of these projects, it's what "TO THE MOON!" means. They WANT that. After which and during their attempts to achieve it, the currency is useless as a currency because of the volatility in value.

- The system has demonstrated multiple times that all the "ownership is truly yours" rhetoric is thrown out the window when the real monied investors in the background have their assets taken from them, in a way that is not against the rules, but no worries we'll just rewrite history for them because they're rich, they can't lose or this whole scheme falls apart

Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again

#40

Post by the_gastropod »

pfisch wrote: post #19
pixl97 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and they all seem to hate bitcoin with passion, but I haven't yet understood why The dollar buys drugs, it buys guns, it buys terrible things. But it also buys bread and pays your rent. The interface a large portion of us has had with bitcoin is speculation and cybercrime. "Your computer has been encrypted, please insert X bitcoin to continue" is not a great interface for making someone have a good feeling about a p…

People don't really buy things on a daily basis with gold either, and 99% of its valuation is based on speculation.

You’re right that gold isn’t used as a currency and that it is a speculative asset. But 99%? Hardly. The majority of gold is used for jewelry or in electronics manufacturing.
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