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Clearview AI: secretive company that might end privacy as we know it (2020)

nytimes.com

41–50 of 76 posts

Re: Clearview AI: secretive company that might end privacy as we know it (2020)

#41

Shot: > At my request, a number of police officers had run my photo through the Clearview app. They soon received phone calls from company representatives asking if they were talking to the media. Chaser: > Clearview tries to pre-empt concerns with an F.A.Q. document given to would-be clients that says its customer-support employees won’t look at the photos that the police upload.

This is a bad company with a bad purpose for existing, and the people working with / for them should feel bad!

Re: Clearview AI: secretive company that might end privacy as we know it (2020)

#42

I'm convinced any tool like this can only be fought by turning the tables, by using them against the people who abuse them, the owners/executives of the companies and legislators who allow the abuse.

Would it be immoral with a community effort to track and publicize the movements of the executives and enablers of such enterprises? Similar to ElonJet.

Re: Clearview AI: secretive company that might end privacy as we know it (2020)

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So find at least one EU citizen in their database and unleash the GDPR against them?

How would an EU law apply to a U.S. company if it has no assets or operations in an EU jurisdiction?

It applies if they work with PII of EU citizens. It might be to difficult to enforce the rules, but that is a different matter.

Re: Clearview AI: secretive company that might end privacy as we know it (2020)

#45
I once got into a shouting match with one of the founders of this company. In the middle of the argument, he said to me, quote, “you civil libertarian/liberty types are going to lose."

During the same conversation, he also implied that people who cared about liberty and privacy were dinosaurs. And companies like his were Chicxulub impactor.

I hope that in a few years, I can confidently say that he's wrong.

Re: Clearview AI: secretive company that might end privacy as we know it (2020)

#46

Clearly the countermove is to train an image generator on your face and flood the internet with fake data. Have your face appear tagged in weird remote places, with several made up names, on statues, in ancient manuscripts. Pretend to be dead, pretend to be a medieval monk, a war hero from the 1940s, a fictional character. Poison those ratty algorithm with nonsense and hide within the noise.

I like it. Fight fire with fire. Also every legitimate photo should be AI enhanced so that it is impossible for the creeps to tell real photos from generated ones.

Re: Clearview AI: secretive company that might end privacy as we know it (2020)

#47
post #33

Clearly the countermove is to train an image generator on your face and flood the internet with fake data. Have your face appear tagged in weird remote places, with several made up names, on statues, in ancient manuscripts. Pretend to be dead, pretend to be a medieval monk, a war hero from the 1940s, a fictional character. Poison those ratty algorithm with nonsense and hide within the noise.

Scary thought: Let's say you do this. And facial data DBs continue to grow. And eventually they become so widespread that most people are in them. And facial recognition becomes so ubiquitous that it is necessary for everyday transactions. And you can't participate in large swatches of society because you are, as far as the technology is concerned, a statue, or dead. Far fetched? It's happening with cell phones. Many…

How about take existing photos of others and do the same thing. Make everyone a statue.

Re: Clearview AI: secretive company that might end privacy as we know it (2020)

#48

Clearly the countermove is to train an image generator on your face and flood the internet with fake data. Have your face appear tagged in weird remote places, with several made up names, on statues, in ancient manuscripts. Pretend to be dead, pretend to be a medieval monk, a war hero from the 1940s, a fictional character. Poison those ratty algorithm with nonsense and hide within the noise.

Or just give up on privacy in the sense you mean. Ultimately we’re all living in meatspace. I was happier when I just accepted it. I’ve been on both sides of the privacy fence — when I was in my 20s I cared deeply about not being known, as you say. But it was self destructive, and I’ve seen many people who end up as reclusive as I was. It’s fine to have privacy. And it’s necessary. But obsessing about it too much can…

Agreed, I’m in a similar boat. Really it’s out of our control how privacy-invasive laws/tech progress. Yes we can vote against them, and should, but they’ll find a patriot-act to shove something we voted against previously in.

And at that point, to me, better to practice stoicism and accept you cannot control things you cannot control, and thereby not worry about those things.

Same with AI. Yes, learn the tools to stay ahead. But pushing to stop it is a fool’s errand. “Best” case we make it so only the corporate few are allowed to make sophisticated AI, “worst” case everyone with ability has their own model, and it pervades society.

Find the things you love, surround yourself with friends and family, and live life. They can’t realistically stop you from stepping away from a screen and enjoying a fire side chat with your mates.

Re: Clearview AI: secretive company that might end privacy as we know it (2020)

#49

I once got into a shouting match with one of the founders of this company. In the middle of the argument, he said to me, quote, “you civil libertarian/liberty types are going to lose." During the same conversation, he also implied that people who cared about liberty and privacy were dinosaurs. And companies like his were Chicxulub impactor. I hope that in a few years, I can confidently say that he's wrong.

It's truly scary how zealous some people can become and how the double down in the face of criticism.

A little introspection and contemplation is always good.

Re: Clearview AI: secretive company that might end privacy as we know it (2020)

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just give up on privacy in the sense you mean. Ultimately we’re all living in meatspace. I was happier when I just accepted it. I’ve been on both sides of the privacy fence — when I was in my 20s I cared deeply about not being known, as you say. But it was self destructive, and I’ve seen many people who end up as reclusive as I was. It’s fine to have privacy. And it’s necessary. But obsessing about it too much can…

> But it was self destructive, and I’ve seen many people who end up as reclusive as I was. I won't give up; but I no longer freak out about it. I am reclusive, apparently; at least, some friends have said so. I'm certainly not a misanthrope; I like people, and in general I trust them. But I don't trust "social media", in the Faceache/Twitter/X sense, and I've never had an account with those services. I have a couple…

I’ve noticed this about myself as I’ve aged, starting at one extreme, overcompensating reaction to the other extreme, and finally settling somewhere in the middle that I’m content with.

Beliefs about religion, politics, family, privacy, hobbies, nutrition, science, and probably a lot more I can’t think of.

The reactionary overcompensation phase, in hindsight, does always seem very “warn everyone” focused, before finally having that moment where it clicks that it’s neither extreme, and that the middle is also okay.

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