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RISC-V chip technology emerges as new battleground in US-China tech war

reuters.com

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Re: RISC-V chip technology emerges as new battleground in US-China tech war

#91

Post by pantalaimon »

grotorea wrote: post #18
fuoqi wrote: post #4

What is next? Linux? GitHub? Wikipedia? Sheer f**g hubris.

Wikipedia is already quite a bit of a battleground for a wide variety of interests. Linux seems like the obvious path to avoiding depending on and trusting Microsoft, although I don't know if China cares that much right now.

Linux sees a lot of contributions from China (Loongson, Huawei, many smaller vendors) and especially Loongson has gotten pretty good with working with upstream to get their architecture (LoongArch) into GCC, binutils, libc …

Re: RISC-V chip technology emerges as new battleground in US-China tech war

#92

Post by w1nst0nsm1th »

thayne wrote: post #42

I suspect (but have no concrete evidence) that the real motivation behind this is that one or more companies feel threatened by risc-v, and hope that they by hindering collaboration, they can hobble their competitors on both sides of the ocean.

I suspect too.

It comes 1 week after ARM IPO.

Re: RISC-V chip technology emerges as new battleground in US-China tech war

#93

Post by panick21_ »

whatever1 wrote: post #38

I can see both of the sides of the argument. It seems that we use US funding to help everyone circumvent ARM and x86. The problem is that US enemies are also recipients of the US technology contributions. But what is the alternative? Stop publishing everything ?

China and companies from China have done a lot of work on RISC-V. So the US is also recipient of China technology.

Its kind of the point of open source.

Re: RISC-V chip technology emerges as new battleground in US-China tech war

#94

Post by panick21_ »

phkahler wrote: post #73
aiunboxed wrote: post #68

What is the incentive for big giants like Intel, Qualcomm, and Nvidia to adopt RISC-V? Isn't their moat their in-house chips? I guess it is more about companies which don't have their own proprietary chips or companies in developing nations.

>> What is the incentive for big giants like Intel, Qualcomm, and Nvidia to adopt RISC-V? Isn't their moat their in-house chips? Every chip company other than Intel and AMD licenses designs or ISA from ARM. Risc-V has no licensing fees if you design your own, and there are even free designs out there. It's not feasible to create your own instruction set. You also have to build a whole bunch of software infrastructure…

It is feasible to have your own instruction set. Many companies have done it, its just a pretty bad idea and everybody that has done it wants to stop doing it.

Re: RISC-V chip technology emerges as new battleground in US-China tech war

#95

Post by joshbaptiste »

tritiy wrote: post #85

"The CCP (Chinese Communist Party) is abusing RISC-V to get around U.S. dominance of the intellectual property needed to design chips." In other words "We should be the best .. they should not be allowed to be the best!"

When the USA feels threatened by a rising power the answer is usually to cripple the rise rather than directly compete

Re: RISC-V chip technology emerges as new battleground in US-China tech war

#96

Post by nojvek »

What happened to “May the best player win”?

The US can throw a fit, but technology is inherently human and RISC-V is an open instruction format.

Sooner or later China will get a powerful working chip. Not in the best interest of US to be an enemy of a billion person nation. Esp the nation that is the world’s factory.

When China couldn’t supply PPP gear in Covid, 100s of thousands died.

I’d rather wish our Senators work on bringing manufacturing back to US instead of playing no-trade games.

Re: RISC-V chip technology emerges as new battleground in US-China tech war

#97

Post by Incipient »

joshbaptiste wrote: post #95
tritiy wrote: post #85

"The CCP (Chinese Communist Party) is abusing RISC-V to get around U.S. dominance of the intellectual property needed to design chips." In other words "We should be the best .. they should not be allowed to be the best!"

When the USA feels threatened by a rising power the answer is usually to cripple the rise rather than directly compete

Seems pretty universal throughout history, and no different with even China themselves. If a country feels threatened, they retaliate/seek to block it.

Our PM asked for an inquiry into the origins of covid, and China banned our beef, wine, barley, and coal imports.

There was no inquiry. Seems China won that one.

Re: RISC-V chip technology emerges as new battleground in US-China tech war

#98

Post by yafbum »

neilv wrote: post #84
yafbum wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> more work was shifted to be done in the restricted country Yes and it cost them more overall. People who design sanctions know well that they provide a powerful incentive to the development of indigenous alternatives in the target country. The calculus is that on balance, it is more desirable to force the target country to waste their resources on catching up (or on circumventing sanctions). The point is to make th…

In practice, how much is it this calculus, and how much is it lobbyists for companies with fairly short-term commercial goals?

In the country applying export sanctions, what companies draw short-term benefits? Usually most commercial actors would rather be able to export anything anywhere.

Re: RISC-V chip technology emerges as new battleground in US-China tech war

#99

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

deadmutex wrote: post #10
Taniwha wrote: post #6

RISC-V is all about not bowing down to one company, or one country - cheaper better chips from China are just as good as cheaper better chips from the USA or Europe - and competition, that great capitalist American institution, is a good thing here - we don't need any archaic old cold warriors messing with our markets

> cheaper better chips from China are just as good as cheaper better chips from the USA or Europe This may be a bit naive. How do you make sure that there are no intentional security issues / backdoors in Chips from a vendor? An interesting clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfXxgb9N_qI .

Watching that clip, it is hilarious how Zuckerberg has pivoted over the years.

In 2015, when Zuckerberg still had hope that Facebook would be allowed to operate in China, Zuckerberg asked Xi Jinping to name his baby.[0] Xi, probably taken aback by the sheer level of sycophancy, turned Zuckerberg down: "Too much responsibility."

Now, Zuckerberg has gone entirely the opposite direction, denouncing the Chinese government, pushing for a TikTok ban, and so on.

0. https://youtu.be/S20BoxH8W9g?si=X1hAG12pquY-Y_i7

Re: RISC-V chip technology emerges as new battleground in US-China tech war

#100

Post by throw9away6 »

sneak wrote: post #86
promptdaddy wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quality of what compared to who? Tiktok is winning.

As is the iPhone. Chinese manufacturing is unparalleled. Comac is also quite instructive.

Comac is the opposite of quality and the iPhone quality is so high because Apple is able to set and hold their high western qa standards. A domestic industry would have to struggle with the supply can taking shortcuts at every level and that’s much harder of a task. That’s why Chinese concrete is often poor quality, it could be higher quality they know how to make it at high quality levels but it isn’t due to rampant cheating.
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